PropheZine #65
October 1, 1998
Bob Lally Publisher
Mimi Nila Senior Editor
Rick Woodcock Asst. Editor
Abraham George Asst. Editor

ARTICLES
Thomas Ice...............Perhaps Today: The Imminent Coming of Christ
Is the Pre-Trib Rapture a Satanic Deception?
Cornerstone Church Pastor: Kent Crockett...........The Pre-Tribulation Rapture
Ron Graff................Pretribulation or Prewrath?
Lori Eldridge ................70 Weeks of Daniels Prophecy
Bob Ippolito.............The PRETRIB RAPTURE vs rusty swords
Kurt Seland..............THE POST RAPTURE SURVIVAL GUIDE

Lee Underwood ...................F.Y.I. - Israel in the News

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Hello everyone,

I would like to humbly ask forgiveness from the subscribers and readers of this newsletter. Not only has this newsletter been late
on the last 2 issues, but it was brought to this editor's attention that an article printed last time from the Winds was
inappropriate to PropheZine's mission statement. It is always our intention to provide you with thought provoking scripturally sound
articles and on some rare occasions an article gets by the editing staff. My humblest apologies to anyone who may have been
offended by the article.

I know on many peoples minds this month are the issues concerning the morality or lack of morality in the United States and the
possibility of impeachment or resignation of President Bill Clinton. We will not address that issue, however. I would like to share
God's guidelines for all Kings, quoted during a recent Bible Prophecy conference by one of the speakers:

Prv:16:12:
It is an abomination to kings to commit wickedness: for the throne is established by righteousness. (KJV)
Prv:29:4:
The king by judgment establisheth the land: but he that receiveth gifts overthroweth it. (KJV)
Prv:31:3:
Give not thy strength unto women, nor thy ways to that which destroyeth kings. (KJV)
++++++++++++ +++++++++++++ ++++++++++
We are bringing to you in this issue articles about the pre-Tribulation rapture from some excellent authors and hope you will enjoy
this issue. The articles may seem redundant but our hope is that they may help confirm some questions you have been struggling with
concerning the Rapture of the Church. The acceleration in which prophetic events are taking place in this world gives us cause to
believe we are truly living in the last days. Our only hope during these days and always is our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. If
you do not know Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior please visit our web page at http://www.prophezine.com/text/gospl.html "Why
become a Christian". It is our desire and His desire that everyone know the blessed assurance of eternal life that comes with
accepting Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior.


May He Bless you and keep you,
In His Service,
Mimi Nila
Mnila@ibm.net
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Perhaps Today: The Imminent Coming of Christ
by Thomas Ice

The New Testament teaching that Christ could return and rapture His church at any-moment, without prior signs or warning (i.e.,
imminency), is such a powerful argument for pretribulationism that it is one of the most fiercely attacked doctrines by pre-trib
opponents. Non-pretribulationists sense that if the New Testament teaches imminency, then a pre-trib rapture is virtually assured.

DEFINITION OF IMMINENCY

What is the biblical definition of imminency? Dr. Renald Showers defines and describes imminence as follows:

1) An imminent event is one which is always "hanging overhead, is constantly ready to befall or overtake one; close at hand in its
incidence." ("imminent," The Oxford English Dictionary, 1901, V, 66.) Thus, imminence carries the sense that it could happen at any
moment. Other things may happen before the imminent event, but nothing else must take place before it happens. If something else
must take place before an event can happen, then that event is not imminent. In other words, the necessity of something else taking
place first destroys the concept of imminency.

2) Since a person never knows exactly when an imminent event will take place, then he cannot count on a certain amount of time
transpiring before the imminent event happens. In light of this, he should always be prepared for it to happen at any moment.

3) A person cannot legitimately set or imply a date for its happening. As soon as a person sets a date for an imminent event he
destroys the concept of imminency, because he thereby is saying that a certain amount of time must transpire before that event can
happen. A specific date for an event is contrary to the concept that the event could happen at any moment.

4) A person cannot legitimately say that an imminent event will happen soon. The term "soon" implies that an event must take place
"within a short time (after a particular point of time specified or implied)." By contrast, an imminent event may take place within
a short time, but it does not have to do so in order to be imminent. As I hope you can see by now, "imminent" is not equal to
"soon."1

A. T. Pierson has noted that, "Imminence is the combination of two conditions, viz,: certainty and uncertainty. By an imminent event
we mean one which is certain to occur at some time, uncertain at what time."2

IMMINENCY IN THE NEW TESTAMENT

The fact that Christ could return, but may not soon, at any moment, yet without the necessity of signs preceding His return requires
the kind of imminence taught by the pre-trib position and is a strong support for pretribulationism.

What New Testament passages teach this truth? Those verses stating that Christ could return at any moment, without warning and those
instructing believers to wait and look for the Lord's coming teach the doctrine of imminence. Note the following New Testament
passages:

1 Corinthians 1:7-"awaiting eagerly the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ,"

1 Corinthians 16:22-"Maranatha."

Philippians 3:20-"For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ;"

Philippians 4:5-"The Lord is near."

1 Thessalonians 1:10-"to wait for His Son from heaven,"

1 Thessalonians 4:15-18-"For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, and remain until the coming of the
Lord, shall not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of
{the} archangel, and with the trumpet of God; and the dead in Christ shall rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be
caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort
one another with these words."

1 Thessalonians 5:6-"so then let us not sleep as others do, but let us be alert and sober."

1 Timothy 6:14-"that you keep the commandment without stain or reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ,"

Titus 2:13-"looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus;"

Hebrews 9:28-"so Christ . . . shall appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him."

James 5:7-9-"Be patient, therefore, brethren, until the coming of the Lord. . . . for the coming of the Lord is at hand. . . .
behold, the Judge is standing right at the door."

1 Peter 1:13 -"fix your hope completely on the grace to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ."

Jude 21-"waiting anxiously for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to eternal life."

Revelation 3:11; 22:7, 12, 20-"'I am coming quickly!'"

Revelation 22:17, 20-"And the Spirit and the bride say, 'Come.' And let the one who hears say, 'Come.'"

"He who testifies to these things says, 'Yes, I am coming quickly.' Amen. Come, Lord Jesus."

It is significant that all of the above passages relate to the rapture and speak of the Lord's coming as something that could occur
at any-moment, that it is imminent. This is why believers are waiting for a person-Jesus Christ-not an event or series of events
such as those related to the tribulation leading up to Christ's second advent in which He returns to the earth and remains for His
millennial reign.

IMMINENCE AND PRETRIBULATIONISM

As we consider the above passages, we note that Christ may come at any moment, that the rapture is actually imminent. Only
pretribulationism can give a full, literal meaning to such an any-moment event. Other rapture views must redefine imminence more
loosely than the New Testament would allow. Dr. Walvoord declares, "The exhortation to look for 'the glorious appearing' of Christ
to His own (Titus 2:13) loses its significance if the Tribulation must intervene first. Believers in that case should look for
signs."3 If the pre-trib view of imminence is not accepted, then it would make sense to look for signs related to events of the
tribulation (i.e., the anti-christ, the two witnesses, etc.) and not for Christ Himself. But the New Testament, as demonstrated
above, uniformly instructs the church to look for the coming of Christ, while tribulation saints are told to look for signs.

The New Testament exhortation to be comforted by the Lord's coming (John 14:1; 1 Thess. 4:18) would no longer have meaning if
believers first had to pass through any part of the tribulation. Instead, comfort would have to await passage through the events of
the tribulation. No, the church has been given a "Blessed Hope," in part, because our Lord's return is truly imminent.

MARANATHA!

The early church had a special greeting for one another, as recorded in 1 Corinthians 16:22, which was "Maranatha!"
Maranatha consists of three Aramaic words: "Mar" ("Lord"), "ana" ("our"), and "tha" ("come"), meaning "our Lord, come." As with
other New Testament passages, Maranatha only makes sense if an any-moment or imminent coming is understood. Such an understanding
supports the pre-trib position.

No wonder these ancient Christians coined such a unique greeting which reflects an eager expectation of the Blessed Hope as a very
real presence in their everyday lives. The life of the church today could only be improved if "Maranatha" were to return as a
sincere greeting on the lips of an expectant people. Maranatha! W

ENDNOTES

1 Renald Showers, Maranatha Our Lord, Come! A Definitive Study of the Rapture of the Church (Bellmawr, N.J.: The Friends of Israel
Gospel Ministry, Inc., 1995), pp. 127-28.

2Arthur T. Pierson, Our Lord's Second Coming as a Motive to World-Wide Evangelism (published by John Wanamaker, n.d., cited in
Showers, Maranatha, p. 127.

3 John F. Walvoord, The Rapture Question: Revised and Enlarged Edition (Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1979), p. 273.
http://www.novia.net/~todd/tt7.html
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Is the Pre-Trib Rapture a Satanic Deception?
by Thomas Ice

Recently, pre-wrath advocate Marvin Rosenthal wrote that the pre-trib rapture was of Satanic origin and unheard of before 1830. "To
thwart the Lord's warning to His children, in 1830," proclaims Rosenthal, "Satan, the 'father of lies,' gave to a fifteen-year-old
girl named Margaret McDonald a lengthy vision."1 Rosenthal gives no documentation, he merely asserts that this is true. However, he
is wrong. He is undoubtedly relying upon the questionable work of Dave MacPherson.

Another thing amazing about Rosenthal's declaration is that a few paragraphs later in the article he characterizes his opposition as
those who "did not deal with the issues, misrepresented the facts, or attempted character assassination."2 This description is
exactly what he has done in his characterization of pre-trib rapture origins. Why would Rosenthal make such outlandish and
unsubstantiated charges about the pre-trib rapture?

THE BIG LIE
One of the things that facilitated the Nazi rise to power in Germany earlier this century was their propaganda approach called "The
Big Lie." If you told a big enough lie often enough then the people would come to believe it. This the Nazis did well. This is what
anti-pretribulationists like John Bray3 and Dave MacPherson4 have done over the last 25 years. Apparently the big lie about the
origins of the pre-trib rapture has penetrated the thinking of Robert Van Kampen5 and Marvin Rosenthal to the extent that they have
adopted such a falsehood as true. This is amazing in light of the fact that their own pre-wrath viewpoint is not much more than
fifteen years old itself. Rosenthal must have changed his mind about pre-trib origins between the time he wrote his book The
Pre-wrath Rapture of the Church (1990) and the recent article (Dec. 1994) since, in the former, he says that the pre-trib rapture
"can be traced back to John Darby and the Plymouth Brethren in the year 1830."6 Rosenthal goes on to say, "Some scholars, seeking to
prove error by association, have attempted (perhaps unfairly) to trace its origin back two years earlier to a charismatic, visionary
woman named Margaret MacDonald."7 Even this statement is in error, since the Margaret Macdonald claim has always been related to
1830, not 1828. However, Rosenthal is correct in his original assessment that these charges are "unfair" and probably spring out of
a motive to "prove error by association," known as the ad hominem argument.

Pretribulationists have sought to defend against "The Big Lie" through direct interaction against the charges.8 In a rebuttal to
these charges I made in 1990, I gave two major reasons why "The Big Lie" is not true. First, it is doubtful that Margaret
Macdonald's "prophecy" contains any elements related to the pre-trib rapture.9 Second, no one has ever demonstrated from actual
facts of history that Darby was influenced by Macdonald's "prophecy" even if it had (which it did not) contained pre-trib
elements.10 John Walvoord has said,

The whole controversy as aroused by Dave MacPherson's claims has so little supporting evidence, despite his careful research, that
one wonders how he can write his book with a straight face. Pretribulationalists should be indebted to Dave MacPherson for exposing
the facts, namely, that there is no proof that MacDonald or Irving originated the pretribulation rapture teaching.11

There is a third reason why MacPherson's theory is wrong, Darby clearly held to an early form of the pre-trib rapture by January
1827. This is a full three years before MacPherson's claim of 1830.

DARBY AND THE PRE-TRIB RAPTURE
Brethren writer, Roy A. Huebner claims and documents his belief that J.N. Darby first began to believe in the pre-trib rapture and
develop his dispensational thinking while convalescing from a riding accident during December 1826 and January 1827.12 If this is
true, then all of the origin-of-the-rapture-conspiracy-theories fall to the ground in a heap of speculative rubble. Darby would have
at least a three-year jump on any who would have supposedly influenced his thought, making it impossible for all the "influence"
theories to have any credibility.

Huebner provides clarification and evidence that Darby was not influenced by a fifteen-yea-old girl (Margaret Macdonald), Lacunza,
Edward Irving, or the Irvingites. These are all said by the detractors of Darby and the pre-trib rapture to be bridges which led to
Darby's thought. Instead, he demonstrates that Darby's understanding of the pre-trib rapture was the product of the development of
his personal interactive thought with the text of Scripture as he, his friends, and dispensationalists have long contended.

Darby's pre-trib and dispensational thoughts, says Huebner, were developed from the following factors: 1) "he saw from Isaiah 32
that there was a different dispensation coming . . . that Israel and the Church were distinct."13 2) "During his convalescence JND
learned that he ought daily to expect his Lord's return."14 3) "In 1827 JND understood the fall of the church. . . 'the ruin of the
Church.'"15 4) Darby also was beginning to see a gap of time between the rapture and the second coming by 1827.16 5) Darby, himself,
said in 1857 that he first started understanding things relating to the pre-trib Rapture "thirty years ago." "With that fixed point
of reference, Jan. 31, 1827," declares Huebner, we can see that Darby "had already understood those truths upon which the
pre-tribulation rapture hinges."17

German author Max S. Weremchuk has produced a major new biography on Darby entitled John Nelson Darby: A Biography.18 He agrees with
Huebner's conclusions concerning the matter. "Having read MacPherson's book . . ." says Weremchuk, "I find it impossible to make a
just comparison between what Miss MacDonald 'prophesied' and what Darby taught. It appears that the wish was the father of the
idea."19

When reading Darby's earliest published essay on biblical prophecy (1829), it is clear that while it still has elements of
historicism, it also reflects the fact that for Darby, the rapture was to be the church's focus and hope.20 Even in this earliest of
essays, Darby expounds upon the rapture as the church's hope.21

SCHOLARS DO NOT ACCEPT THE BIG LIE
The various "rapture origin" theories espoused by opponents of pre-tribulationsm are not accepted as historically valid by scholars
who have examined the evidence. The only ones who appear to have accepted these theories are those who already are opposed to the
pre-trib rapture. A look at various scholars and historians reveals that they think, in varying degrees, that MacPherson has not
proven his point. Most, if not all who are quoted below do not hold to the pre-trib rapture teaching.
Ernest R. Sandeen declares,

This seems to be a groundless and pernicious charge. Neither Irving nor any member of the Albury group advocated any doctrine
resembling the secret rapture. . . . Since the clear intention of this charge is to discredit the doctrine by attributing its origin
to fanaticism rather than Scripture, there seems little ground for giving it any credence.22

Historian Timothy P. Weber's evaluation is a follows:

The pretribulation rapture was a neat solution to a thorny problem and historians are still trying to determine how or where Darby
got it. . . .

A newer though still not totally convincing view contends that the doctrine initially appeared in a prophetic vision of Margaret
Macdonald, . . .

Possibly, we may have to settle for Darby's own explanation. He claimed that the doctrine virtually jumped out of the pages of
Scripture once he accepted and consistently maintained the distinction between Israel and the church.23

American historian Richard R. Reiter informs us that,

[Robert] Cameron probably traced this important but apparently erroneous view back to S. P. Tregelles, . . . Recently more detailed
study on this view as the origin of pretribulationism appeared in works by Dave McPherson, . . . historian Ian S.
Rennie . . . regarded McPherson's case as interesting but not conclusive.24

Posttribulationist William E. Bell asserts that,

It seems only fair, however, in the absence of eyewitnesses to settle the argument conclusively, that the benefit of the doubt
should be given to Darby, and that the charge made by Tregelles be regarded as a possibility but with insufficient support to merit
its acceptance. . . . On the whole, however, it seems that Darby is perhaps the most likely choice--with help from Tweedy. This
conclusion is greatly strengthened by Darby's own claim to have arrived at the doctrine through his study of II Thessalonians
2:1-2.25

Pre-trib rapture opponent John Bray does not accept the MacPherson thesis either.

He [Darby] rejected those practices, and he already had his new view of the Lord coming FOR THE SAINTS (as contrasted to the later
coming to the earth) which he had believed since 1827, . . . It was the coupling of this "70th week of Daniel"
prophecy and its futuristic interpretation, with the teaching of the "secret rapture," that gave to us the completed
"Pre-tribulation Secret Rapture" teaching as it has now been taught for many years. . . . makes it impossible for me to believe that
Darby got his Pre-Tribulation Rapture teaching from Margaret MacDonald's vision in 1830. He was already a believer in it since 1827,
as he plainly said.26

Huebner considers MacPherson's charges as "using slander that J. N. Darby took the (truth of the) pretribulation rapture from those
very opposing, demon-inspired utterances."27 He goes on to conclude that MacPherson

did not profit by reading the utterances allegedly by Miss M. M. Instead of apprehending the plain import of her statements, as
given by R. Norton, which has some affinity to the post-tribulation scheme and no real resemblance to the pretribulation rapture and
dispensational truth, he has read into it what he appears so anxious to find.28

CONCLUSION
F. F. Bruce, who was part of the Brethren movement his entire life, but one who did not agree with the pre-trib rapture said the
following when commenting on the validity of MacPherson's thesis:

Where did he [Darby] get it? The reviewer's answer would be that it was in the air in the 1820s and 1830s among eager students of
unfulfilled prophecy, . . . direct dependence by Darby on Margaret Macdonald is unlikely.29

John Walvoord's assessment is likely close to the truth:

any careful student of Darby soon discovers that he did not get his eschatological views from men, but rather from his doctrine of
the church as the body of Christ, a concept no one claims was revealed supernaturally to Irving or Macdonald. Darby's views
undoubtedly were gradually formed, but they were theologically and biblically based rather than derived from Irving's
pre-Pentecostal group.30

I challenge opponents of the pre-trib rapture to stick to a discussion of this matter based upon the Scriptures. While some have
done this, many have not been so honest. To call the pre-trib position Satanic, as Rosenthal has done, does not help anyone in this
discussion. Such rhetoric will only serve to cause greater polarization of the two views. However, when pre-trib opponents make
false charges about the history of the pre-trib view we must respond. And respond we will in our next issue where we will present a
clear pre-trib rapture statement from the fourth or fifth century. This pre-trib rapture statement ante-dates 1830 by almost 1,500
years and will certainly lead to at least a revision of those propagating The Big Lie.

ENDNOTES.
1 Marvin J. Rosenthal, "Is the Church in Matthew Chapter 24?" Zion's Fire (Nov-Dec 1994), p. 10. 2 Ibid.
3 John L. Bray, The Origin of the Pre-Tribulation Rapture Teaching (Lakeland, FL.: John L. Bray Ministry, 1982).
4 Dave MacPherson, The Unbelievable Pre-Trib Origin (Kansas City: Heart of America Bible Society, 1973). The Late Great Pre-Trib
Rapture (Kansas City: Heart of America Bible Society, 1974). The Great Rapture Hoax (Fletcher, N.C.:
New Puritan Library, 1983). Rapture? (Fletcher, N.C.: New Puritan Library, 1987). The Rapture Plot (Monticello, Utah:
P.O.S.T. Inc., 1994).
5 Robert Van Kampen, The Sign (Wheaton, IL.: Crossway Books, 1992), pp. 445-47.
6 Marvin Rosenthal, The Pre-Wrath Rapture of the Church (Nashville: Thomas Nelson Publishers, 1990), p. 53. 7 Ibid., pp.
53-54.
8 Some of the pre-trib responses include the following: R. A. Huebner, The Truth of the Pre-Tribulation Rapture Recovered
(Millington, N.J.: Present Truth Publishers, 1976); Precious Truths Revived and Defended Through J. N. Darby, Vol. 1 (Morganville,
N. J.: Present Truth Publishers, 1991). Gerald B. Stanton, Kept From The Hour, (Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1956). John F. Walvoord,
The Blessed Hope and the Tribulation (Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1979). Robert L. Sumner, "Looking For The Blessed Horrible
Holocaust!" A book review of The Late Great Pre-Trib Rapture in The Biblical Evangelist (Vol. 10, Num. 1; May, 1975); "Hope? Or
Hoax?" The Biblical Evangelist (Vol. 18, Num. 3; Feb., 1984). Hal Lindsey, The Rapture: Truth Or Consequences (New York: Bantam
Books, 1983). Charles Ryrie, What You Should Know About the Rapture (Chicago: Moody Press, 1981). Tim LaHaye, No Fear of the Storm:
Why Christians will Escape All the Tribulation (Sisters, Ore.: Multnomah, 1992). Thomas D. Ice, "Why the Doctrine of the
Pretribulational Rapture Did Not Begin with Margaret Macdonald," Bibliotheca Sacra 147 (1990), pp. 155-68; "The Origin of the
Pre-Trib Rapture," Part I &
II, Biblical Perspectives, vol. 2, no. 1, Jan./Feb. 1989 & vol. 2, no. 2, Mar./Apr. 1989; "Did J. N. Darby Believe in the Pretrib
Rapture by 1827?" Dispensational Distinctives, vol. I, no. 6, Nov./Dec. 1991.

9 The following books are some of those which have the full text of Macdonald's utterance: MacPherson's Cover-Up, and Hoax. R. A.
Huebner, The Truth of the Pre-Tribulation Rapture Recovered (Millington, N.J.: Present Truth Publishers, 1976), pp. 67-69. Hal
Lindsey, The Rapture: Truth Or Consequences (New York: Bantam Books, 1983), pp. 169-172.
William R. Kimball, The Rapture: A Question of Timing (Grand Rapids: Baker Book House, 1985), pp. 44-47.
10 Ice, "Why the Doctrine of the Pretribulational Rapture Did Not Begin with Margaret Macdonald," pp. 158, 161.
11 Walvoord, The Blessed Hope and the Tribulation, p. 47.
12 R. A. Huebner, Precious Truths Revived and Defended Through J. N. Darby, Vol. 1 (Morganville, N. J.: Present Truth Publishers,
1991).
13 Ibid., p. 17. 14 Ibid., p. 19. 15 Ibid., p. 18. 16 Ibid., p. 23. 17 Ibid., p. 24.
18 Max S. Weremchuk, John Nelson Darby: A Biography (Neptune, N. J.: Loizeaux Brothers, 1992). 19 Ibid., p. 242.
20 J. N. Darby, "Reflections upon the Prophetic Inquiry and the Views Advanced in it" The Collected Writings of J. N.
Darby, vol. 2 (Winschoten, Netherlands: H. L. Heijkoop, reprint 1971), pp. 1-31.
21 Ibid., pp. 16-18, 25, 30.
22 Ernest R. Sandeen, The Roots of Fundamentalism: British and American Millenarianism 1800-1930 (Grand Rapids:
Baker Book House, 1970), p. 64.
23 Timothy P. Weber, Living In The Shadow Of The Second Coming: American Premillennialism 1875-1982 (Grand Rapids: Zondervan
Publishing House, 1983), pp. 21-22.
24 Richard R. Reiter, The Rapture: Pre-, Mid-, or Post-Tribulational? (Grand Rapids: Zondervan Publication, 1984), p.
236.
25 William E. Bell, A Critical Evaluation of the Pretribulation Rapture Doctrine in Christian Eschatology (Ph.D. diss., New York
University, 1967), pp. 60-61, 64-65.
26 Bray, Ibid., pp. 24-25, 28 27 Huebner, p. 13. 28 Ibid., p. 67.
29 F. F. Bruce, Review of The Unbelievable Pre-Trib Origin in The Evangelical Quarterly, (Vol. XLVII, No. 1; Jan-Mar, 1975), p. 58.
30 Walvoord, p. 47.
http://www.novia.net/~todd/tt11.html
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The Pre-Tribulation Rapture
By Cornerstone Church
Pastor: Kent Crockett

Let me first say that our fellowship as Christians is not based upon the timing of the rapture, but upon the finished work of Jesus
on the cross. Some have accused those who believe in a pre-tribulation rapture as "escapists," trying to avoid all trouble or
persecution. On the contrary, the Church always has been and always will be persecuted as long as we are in the world, but this is
not the same as the wrath of God poured out during the Tribulation. We believe the rapture occurs before the Tribulation because
scriptures overwhelmingly support a pre-tribulation rapture, as opposed to the a-millennial, post-millennial, and post-tribulation
theories.

I'll be happy whenever Jesus returns for His Church, whether it is Pre-Trib, sometime during the Tribulation, or at the end of the
Tribulation. We can't be dogmatic over something that hasn't occurred yet. Whenever He comes is His will, which is fine with me. In
the mean time, God has given us scriptures to examine. The following is a list of scriptural proofs that indicate the rapture will
be Pre-Tribulation.

16 Proofs for a Pre-Tribulation Rapture

Proof #1: Revelation 19:11-21 doesn't mention a resurrection.

The rapture is a resurrection of those "in Christ" (1 Thess. 4:13-18). Isn't it a little bit odd that in Rev. 19:11-21, which is the
clearest picture of the second coming of Christ, there is no mention of a resurrection? The rapture will be the biggest event since
the resurrection of Jesus where hundreds of millions of Christians will be resurrected and translated, yet there isn't any mention
here. Don't you think it deserves at least one verse? The rapture isn't mentioned because it doesn't happen at the second coming.

Proof #2: Zechariah 14:1-15 doesn't mention a resurrection.

This is an Old Testament picture of Jesus returning to earth at the second coming. Again, no mention of a resurrection.

Proof #3: Two different pictures are painted.

In the Old Testament, there were two different pictures painted of the Messiah-one suffering (Isa. 53:2-10, Ps.
22:6-8, 11-18) and one reigning as King (Ps. 2:6-12, Zech. 14:9,16). As we look back on these scriptures, we see they predicted two
separate comings of the Messiah-the 1st coming as a suffering Messiah and the 2nd coming (still future) as a reigning King.

In the New Testament, we have another picture added. Again, we have two pictures painted which don't look the same. These two
different descriptions of Jesus' coming point to two separate events we call "the rapture" and "the second coming."

Proof #4: The Known Day and the Unknown Day
Concerning the return of Jesus, the Bible presents a day we can't know and a day we can know. Matthew 25:13 says Jesus will return
at an unknown time, while Revelation 12:6 says the Jews will have to wait 1,260 days for the Lord to return. The 1,260 days begins
when the Antichrist stands in the Temple and declares himself to be God (Matt. 24:15-21, 2 Thess. 2:4) This event will take place at
the mid-point of the seven year Tribulation (Dan 9:27).
The Antichrist has authority to rule for 42 months, which is 1,260 days (Rev. 13:4) and will be destroyed by Jesus at His second
coming (Rev. 19:20, 2 Thess. 2:8). The known and unknown days must happen at different times, meaning they are two separate events.

Proof #5: A door open in heaven (Revelation 4:1)
The door in heaven is opened to let John into heaven. We believe John's call into heaven is prophetic of the church being caught up
at the rapture (see proof #6). In Revelation 19:11, heaven is opened again, this time to let the armies which are already in heaven
out. This is the Church, which has been raptured at a previous time, following Jesus out of heaven at the second coming.

Proof #6: "Come up here." (Revelation 4:1)
A voice called for the apostle John to "Come up here," and immediately he was in heaven. This could be a prophetic reference to the
rapture of the Church. The words "Come up here" are spoken to the two witnesses who are killed in the middle of the Tribulation, who
are resurrected and ascend into heaven (Rev. 11:12). Therefore, the phrase "Come up here" could mean the church is raptured in Rev.
4:1. The word "church" is mentioned 22 times in Rev. 1-3, but is not mentioned again until Rev. 22:17.

Proof #7: The 24 elders have their crowns.

After John is called up into heaven, he sees the 24 elders with their crowns (Rev. 4:4-10). We know that Christians will receive
their rewards (crowns) at the rapture (2 Tim. 4:8, 1 Pet. 5:4). We will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous (Luke 14:14).
The elders couldn't receive their crowns unless the resurrection (rapture) has taken place.

Proof #8 Holy ones are already with Jesus in heaven (Zech. 14:5, Rev. 19:14)
The armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, follow Jesus out of heaven at His second coming (Rev. 19:14, Zech. 14:5, Col. 3:4).
These are not angels because Rev. 19:8 tells us the fine linen is the righteousness of the saints. In order to come out of heaven we
first have to go in, indicating a previous rapture.
Proof #9: Kept from the hour of testing (Rev. 3:10)
Revelation 3:10 says we will be kept out of the hour of testing which will come upon the whole earth (the Tribulation). Some have
wrongly believed "keep" means to keep through, or protect through the Tribulation. Suppose you approach a high voltage area with a
sign that says, "Keep Out." Does that mean you can enter and be protected?
No, it means you are forbidden from entering the area. But this verse also says He will keep us from the hour of testing. It is not
just the testing, but the time period. If a student is excused from a test, he still may have to sit in the class while others take
the test. But if he is excused from the hour of testing, he can go home. The Church will be called home before the hour of testing.

Proof #10: Angels don't resurrect people when they gather them for judgment.

When the angels are sent forth to gather the elect at the second coming (Matt. 24:29-31), some have wrongly interpreted this as the
rapture. There is one huge problem with this interpretation. If we are resurrected at this time, why would we need angels to gather
us? In the resurrection, we will be like the angels (Matt. 22:30), able to travel in the air at will. Obviously, these people who
are gathered are not resurrected, therefore it can't be the rapture. No one would claim the wicked are raptured at this time, yet
Matthew 13:39-41, 49 says the angels will not only gather the elect, but also the wicked. This gathering is not a resurrection.

Proof #11: Both wicked and righteous both can't be taken first.

First Thessalonians 4:13-17 says the righteous are taken and the wicked are left behind. Matthew 13:30, 49 says the wicked are taken
first and righteous are left behind. This points to two separate events, the rapture and the second coming.

Proof #12: Jesus returns from the wedding.

When Jesus returns to earth at the second coming, He will return from a wedding (Luke 12:36). At the rapture, Jesus is married to
His bride, the Church. After the wedding, He will return to earth.

Proof #13: Jesus will receive us to Himself, not us to receive Him (John 14:2-3).

Jesus said He would prepare a place for the Church in heaven, then He would come again to receive us to Himself.
Why would Jesus prepare a place for us in heaven and then not take us there? At the rapture, He will come to receive us to Himself,
"that where I am (heaven), there you may be also." If the rapture occurred at the same time as the second coming, we would go up to
the clouds and then immediately come back to earth. That would contradict John 14:2-3.


Proof #14: The one who restrains is taken out of the way.

In 2 Thess. 2:6-7, Paul says "the one who restrains will be taken out of the way" before the Antichrist can be revealed. We believe
this refers to the rapture because the Church is clearly the biggest obstacle to the Antichrist becoming a world ruler.


Proof #15: The separation of the sheep and goats (Matt. 25:31-46)
If the rapture occurred at the second coming, why would the sheep and the goats need to be separated immediately after the second
coming? A rapture at the second coming would have already separated the sheep and the goats.
With a Pre-Tribulation rapture, the people saved after the rapture will need to be separated after the second coming
.
Proof #16: Who will populate the Millennium?

If the rapture occurs at the second coming and the wicked are cast into hell at that time, who will be left to populate the
millennium? Only people in their natural (non-resurrected) bodies will be able to have children (Matt. 22:30). With a
Pre-Tribulation rapture, the people saved after the rapture who are alive at the second coming will populate the earth during the
Millennium (See "Who will populate the millennium?" Bible Study).

http://www.odsgc.net/~cornerst/
cornerst@odsgc.net
************************************

Pretribulation or Prewrath?
by Ron Graff
(email: RonGraff@aol.com)

Introduction

Recent publications by Robert Van Kampen and Marvin Rosenthal have presented a new variation in the study of the timing of the
Rapture. They have coined the expression "prewrath Rapture" for their position. (The Rapture Question Answered, p. 49, p. 198). The
purpose of this paper is to examine some of the key aspects of their theory and compare it to the teachings of the pretribulation
Rapture.

Since most of their teaching on the Rapture question is distilled in Van Kampen's book, The Rapture Question Answered, most of our
references will be to this book. Some references will be made to The Sign (Expanded Version), Van Kampen's earlier and larger work.
Reference notes will refer to Rapture, and Sign, accordingly.

I would like to state at the beginning, that I do not consider those who hold the prewrath position as enemies. The ones I have
read love the Lord, are evangelistic, and seem to be very sincere. I am very impressed with Van Kampen's ambition, writing skills,
reverence for God's Word, and generosity (his organization sends free copies of The Sign to pastors!). We are all seekers for the
truth, and it is my hope that my observations will help all of us become better students of prophecy. (Acts 17:11)

Areas of Agreement

Following Van Kampen's own list of areas of agreement, I acknowledge the following issues of mutual understanding. These matters do
not need to be addressed in our discussion.

Premillenialism

Literal hermeneutic

Seven year Tribulation

Second half of Tribulation dominated by Antichrist

Mark of the Beast

Unprecedented persecution of the elect and Israel

Timing of the battle of Armageddon

The Church will not see the wrath of God (Rapture, pp. 33-42)

Problems With The Pre-Wrath View

Van Kampen claims that he was torn between the pretribulation and posttribulation views of the rapture. He agreed with his
pretribulation friends that the church will not see the wrath of God (1 Thess. 1:10; 5:9; Rev. 3:10). But he agreed with his
postribulation friends that the elect will someday become targets of Antichrist's persecution (Matt. 24:21-22; 29-31; 2 Thess.
2:1-8; Rev. 13:3-10; 14:9-12). (Rapture, pp. 42-43)


He felt that there must be a common denominator somewhere in Scripture to balance these teachings. When he considered the signs
given in Matthew 24:29-31, he believed he had discovered this common element.


"Immediately after the distress of those days "'the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall
from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.'

"At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son
of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they
will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other." Matthew 24:29-31(NIV)

Based on this discovery, Van Kampen says that the core truth of their view is this: "The persecution by Antichrist during the great
tribulation will be the wrath of Satan (Rev. 12:12), not the wrath of God. When the sign of the sun, moon, and stars is given in the
heavens, the wrath of Satan against the elect will be terminated, the faithful to God will be raptured, and then the wrath of God
will begin against the wicked who remain, ending with the battle of Armageddon." (Rapture, pp. 47-48)

1A - Antichrist will persecute the Church.

After carefully studying both of Van Kampen's books (The Sign, and The Rapture Question Answered), I believe that this statement of
the "core truth" of the prewrath view really does represent the key differences between their position and the pretribulation
position. It identifies several questionable elements of their theology. These debatable assumptions are:

1A - Antichrist will persecute the Church.

2A - Satan's wrath ends at the Rapture and then God's wrath begins.

3A - The Rapture takes place when Christ returns in great glory.

The prewrath position does acknowledge the separate existence of Israel and special treatment by God during the Tribulation when
she is driven into the wilderness (Rev. 12), but it assumes that they are not saved until the very end, when they think the 144,000
are sealed. This will be discussed more fully later. The big problem with prewrath theology is the assumption that the "elect" which
are also "saints" of the Tribulation period are basically the same as the Church. There are two main difficulties with this view.
First, the Church is missing. This is also discussed later. Of equal importance, this seven year Tribulation period is definitely
the last "week" of Daniel 9:27, and, as such, is a final segment of Israel's history before the Millennial Kingdom. According to The
book of Revelation, the events of the period revolve around Israel, The Temple, Jerusalem, the Two Witnesses, and the 144,000 from
the twelve tribes of Israel.

1B - Failure to distinguish between Israel and the Church

The fact is, when Jesus gave His explanation of future events, known as the Olivet Discourse (Matthew 24 and 25), the Church had
just been announced (Matthew 16:13-18 ), but it's composition and destiny, including the Rapture, was still a mystery. This
information would later be revealed to the Apostle Paul. If Christ had discussed the course of the Church age and the Rapture, it
would have been very confusing to the disciples at that time. The Church came into existence on the Day of Pentecost (Acts 2), and
little by little, the organization took shape. All of the early believers were Jewish, and the new Church was seen as a continuation
of their Old Testament Beliefs.

The "mystery" of the Church was revealed to the Apostle Paul, and described by Him in numerous passages of Scripture. In Romans
11:25 he used the word to describe the temporary "hardening" of Israel: "I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers,
so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in."

The word "mystery" (Greek musterion) meant a "secret," or something formerly hidden, but now revealed. Paul used it in various
places to describe aspects of the Church and its mission. (Romans 16:25; Ephesians 1:9-10). The Rapture itself is called a mystery
in 1 Corinthians 15:51-58. In Ephesians 3 the Apostle explained in greater detail that the mystery of the Church was part of God's
purpose all along to make Gentiles heirs together with Israel.

Surely you have heard about the administration of God's grace that was given to me for you, that is, the mystery made known to me
by revelation, as I have already written briefly. In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery
of Christ, which was not made known to men in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God's holy apostles and
prophets.

This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers
together in the promise in Christ Jesus. I became a servant of this gospel by the gift of God's grace given me through the working
of his power.

Although I am less than the least of all God's people, this grace was given me: to preach to the Gentiles the unsearchable riches
of Christ, and to make plain to everyone the administration of this mystery, which for ages past was kept hidden in God, who created
all things.

His intent was that now, through the church, the manifold wisdom of God should be made known to the rulers and authorities in the
heavenly realms, according to his eternal purpose which he accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord.. Ephesians 3:2-11 (NIV)

Van Kampen complains that when the pretribulation teachers relegate the events of the Olivet Discourse to Israel, they fail to
teach the entire Gospel message. (Rapture, p. 103) We agree that students of the Word should accept that all Scripture is profitable
(2 Timothy 3:16), and that all of it should be taught. However, not all sections apply to all people. Everything in the Gospels is
important and instructive to the Church, but some portions are about the history of Israel, beyond the age of the Church. To fail to
make that distinction is to do a great disservice to the Bible student.

2B - Failure to distinguish between the Church and the "saints" of the Tribulation

The prewrath Rapture theory equates Church with the "elect" of Matthew 24:31, who are gathered by angels when Christ returns in
power and glory (Rapture, pp. 80-81. There are serious problems with this view. The glorious visible return of Christ as King of
Kings is quite different from the promised Rapture of the Church. This will be discussed later.

The church is not named once in the entire account of the Tribulation period in the Book of Revelation Chapters 4-19. This is all
the more noticeable since the word is used repeatedly in the first three chapters, where Christ is seen walking among the churches,
and then sending messages to seven specific churches. The best explanation for this is that the true Church, the bride of Christ, is
taken from the earth at the Rapture. At chapter 4, the Apostle John is told to "Come up here." For the remainder of the vision, he
is in the presence of the Lord, looking down on the dreadful events of the Tribulation. This is symbolic of the Rapture of the
Church.

During the Tribulation, however, there are "saints." They are also called the "elect." They are undoubtedly true believers in Jesus
Christ, because there has been "no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved." Acts 4:12 (NIV) Just as it has
always been, they may be Jews or Gentiles who have decided to receive Christ as Savior. As the story unfolds in the book of
Revelation, these believers will undergo great persecution, and many of them will be martyred for the cause of Christ. Those who die
are the subject of the Fifth Seal (Revelation 6:9-11). Those who survive to the end will be gathered together by angels (Matthew
24:31) and will undoubtedly be the mortals who populate the Millennial Kingdom (Revelation 20).

3B - An unfair test (Rapture or Armageddon?)

Van Kampen suggests a test he has given to prophecy classes he has taught over the years. First read the following Biblical
passage:

Matthew 24:27-40

27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.

28 Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.

29 "Immediately after the distress of those days "'the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will
fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.'

30 "At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the
Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory.

31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the
heavens to the other.

32 "Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near.

33 Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door.

34 I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.

35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

36 "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.

38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered
the ark; 39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at
the coming of the Son of Man.

40 Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left.

Van Kampen has them read verses 27, 30-31 and 37-40, then asks, "Now, decide which event Christ had in mind when He gave this
specific instruction to His disciples. Does this passage refer to the battle of Armageddon as recorded in Revelation 19:11-21, or
does it refer to the rapture of the saints as recorded in 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17?" (Rapture, pp. 106-107) He then states that
everyone in his classes has always thought it was about the Rapture.

The question itself is flawed. There is no reference in these verses to any battle, much less the specific battle of Armageddon.
If the question were to be worded fairly it should ask, "Does this passage refer to the glorious return of Christ as recorded in
Revelation 19:11-21, or does it refer to the rapture of the saints as recorded in 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17." In that case,
knowledgeable students would be most likely to choose the Glorious Return.

Van Kampen wouldn't word the question in this way because he evidently does not believe that there are two separate events. In
fact, he ridicules the pretribulation view as teaching that the Church should be looking for the second coming, but Israel should be
waiting for the third coming. (Rapture, p. 95) Of course, this is not what is taught by pretribulation teachers. It is easily
provable that there are two distinct events coming - The Rapture and The Glorious Return. (See "Failure to distinguish between the
Rapture and The Glorious Return of Christ" below) Pretribulation scholars refer to both events as "The Second Coming," just as the
many events of Jesus' earthly sojourn were all part of His "First Coming."

2A - Satan's wrath ends at the Rapture and then God's wrath begins.

Using Revelation 12:12, and 13:4-7, Van Kampen says that Satan's wrath is the persecution of God's elect. (Rapture, p. 58). These
verse state:

Therefore rejoice, you heavens and you who dwell in them! But woe to the earth and the sea, because the devil has gone down to
you! He is filled with fury, because he knows that his time is short." Revelation 12:12

Men worshiped the dragon because he had given authority to the beast, and they also worshipped the beast and asked, "Who is like
the beast? Who can make war against him?" The beast was given a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies and to exercise his
authority for forty-two months. He opened his mouth to blaspheme God, and to slander his name and his dwelling place and those who
live in heaven. He was given power to make war against the saints and to conquer them. And he was given authority over every tribe,
people, language and nation. Revelation 13:4-7(NIV)

When one studies this passage, it is clear that Satan's wrath is a reaction to God's wrath. God punishes Satan by casting him down
to earth. This makes him angry. He is, in fact given power to persecute believers ("the saints") during the last half of the
Tribulation (42 months). The proper way of seeing the Tribulation is that it is the time of both God's wrath and Satan's wrath as he
struggles against the sovereignty of God.

Even in this present time we can see the same thing, to a lesser degree. Peter says that the Devil is like a roaring lion, seeking
whom he may devour, and causing persecution of believers. (1 Peter 5:8-9)

1B - Artificial shift from Satan's wrath to God's wrath

Using the illustrations of the days of Noah and the days of Lot in Luke 17:22-30, Van Kampen concludes that the Rapture will occur
on the very day that God's wrath begins, thus ending the wrath of Satan. (Rapture, pp. 56-59).

The passage does not refer to the Rapture, but to the Glorious Return of Christ. The worst expression of God's wrath will be
delivered at that time because the battle of Armageddon if fought. But that is not to say that the earlier part of the Tribulation
is not also the result of God's wrath.

2B - Assumption that God's wrath does not begin until Christ returns.

The prewrath assumption that God's wrath does not start until just before the battle of Armageddon does not fit the facts revealed
in the book of Revelation.

Even in the very first chapter of Revelation we see Christ, not as the Gentle Savior of the Gospels, but as the Judge, with eyes
of blazing fire, glowing bronze feet, a voice that sounds like rushing waters, a sword coming out of his mouth, and a face glowing
like the sun in all its brilliance. (Revelation 1:13-18)

In Revelation 3:10 the Church at Philadelphia was given the promise that they would be kept "from the hour of trial that is going
to come upon the whole world to test those who live on the earth." The implication is clear that God's wrath would be poured out on
the whole evil world as He had done at the time of the flood.

In Chapters 4 and 5, future events are seen as emanating from God's sovereign throne. Jesus Christ, as the Lion of the Tribe of
Judah and the Lamb who was slain, is the only one worthy to open the seals of the scroll. Starting with chapter 6, Jesus opens the
seals, one at a time, and each time, events transpire which represent God's wrath and judgment, usually on the whole earth.

In chapter 7 God holds back the strong angels who have power to harm the earth until the 144,000 can be sealed.

In chapter 12, as mentioned before, Satan's wrath is displayed, but it is the result of God's wrath leveled against him.

At the midpoint of the Tribulation, when people must decide whether or not to receive the "mark of the beast," it is said that
God's judgment has come.

Then I saw another angel flying in midair, and he had the eternal gospel to proclaim to those who live on the earth-- to every
nation, tribe, language and people. He said in a loud voice, "Fear God and give him glory, because the hour of his judgment has
come. Worship him who made the heavens, the earth, the sea and the springs of water."

A second angel followed and said, "Fallen! Fallen is Babylon the Great, which made all the nations drink the maddening wine of her
adulteries."

A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: "If anyone worships the beast and his image and receives his mark on the
forehead or on the hand, he, too, will drink of the wine of God's fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his
wrath. He will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment
rises for ever and ever. There is no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the
mark of his name." Revelation 14:6-11

3A - The Rapture takes place when Christ returns in great glory.

1B - Failure to distinguish between the Rapture and The Glorious Return of Christ

The key passage for the prewrath view is the Olivet Discourse (Matthew 24 and 25). There is only one return of Christ in view
there, and that is at the end of the sequence of events describing the Great Tribulation. Matthew 24:30 states that, "They will see
the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory." Van Kampen says this is the Rapture. However, there are
many differences between the Rapture and the Glorious Return of Christ. Here are some of these differences:

THE RAPTURE

THE GLORIOUS RETURN

Christ comes for His own

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

Christ return with His own

Revelation 19:14

Believers taken to Father's House

John 14:3

Believers come to Earth

Matthew 24:30

Seen only by believers

1 Corinthians 15:52

Every eye will see Him

Revelation 1:7; 19:11-16; Matthew 24:30

No reference to Satan

Satan bound

Revelation 20:1-3

Earth not judged

Earth judged

Revelation 20:4-5

A Mystery

1 Corinthians 15:51

Foretold in Old Testament

Dan. 12:1-3; Zech. 12:10; 14:4

2B - Who is left to populate the Millennial Kingdom?

If the Rapture were to take place just before the battle of Armageddon, and all the believers were taken just before the final
events of the Tribulation, what people would become believers at the very last moments so that there would be godly people to
populate the Millennial Kingdom? Van Kampen's thought is that this is where the 144,000 come in. (Rapture, pp. 53-54).

We agree that there will be many Jewish people who believe at the end when they see the Lord whom they have pierced and mourn for
Him. (Zechariah 12:10).

However, according to Revelation 7:3- , the 144,000 are sealed before any destruction occurs:

"Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God." Then I heard the
number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel.

3B - The Judgment of the Sheep and Goats

According to Matthew 25:31-46, there will be a judgment of "sheep" and "goats" based on how people treated Israel. In the
pretribulation view, surviving believers of the Tribulation period will qualify as the "sheep." In the prewrath view, all believers
would have been taken at the Rapture and only a remnant from Israel itself would become believers at the very end. It is difficult
to imagine that these new converts could be the "sheep" who acted kindly toward Israel.

Van Kampen offers a very unorthodox explanation of this dilemma. Since it is obvious that these Gentile survivors have not yet
accepted Christ (or they would have gone up at the Rapture shortly before this time), he says that they will have trusted Christ
when they saw Him face to face "when the Son of Man comes in His glory." (Matthew 23:31) (Sign, pp. 403-405)

I didn't notice any mention of this theory in his later book, probably because of difficulties in supporting this view.

4B - The Parable of the Wheat and Tares

The Parable of the Wheat and Tares also refers to the separation of believers from non-believers at the end of this age.

Jesus told them another parable: "The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. But while everyone was
sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds
also appeared. "The owner's servants came to him and said, 'Sir, didn't you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds
come from?'

"'An enemy did this,' he replied. "The servants asked him, 'Do you want us to go and pull them up?'

"'No,' he answered, 'because while you are pulling the weeds, you may root up the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the
harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the
wheat and bring it into my barn.'"

Then he left the crowd and went into the house. His disciples came to him and said, "Explain to us the parable of the weeds in the
field."

He answered, "The one who sowed the good seed is the Son of Man. The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the sons of
the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one, and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age,
and the harvesters are angels.

"As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. The Son of Man will send out his angels,
and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. They will throw them into the fiery furnace,
where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who
has ears, let him hear. Matthew 13:24-30, 36-43

This parable make good sense from a pretribulation point of view because it is similar to the Judgment of Sheep and Goats. In both
cases, there are many believers and many non-believers. This takes place at "the end of the age" and the agents are angels. It is
difficult for the prewrath position because that view does not allow for a large number of believers at the end of the age.

Again, I did not notice the use of this parable in Van Kampen's later book, The Rapture Question Answered, but is used repeatedly
in The Sign. This passage is listed at least 15 times in the Scripture Index of that book. In The Sign, the author usually listed
this passage as a proof for the Rapture, saying, for instance,

As we continue, we will see that when believers are received by Christ in the clouds at the Rapture of the church, it will be the
angels of God who "gather the wheat into My barn" (Matt. 13:30) and who "gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the
sky to the other" (Matt. 24:31), and that "we who are alive and remain shall be caught up [by God's angels] together with them in
the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air" (1 Thess. 4:17) (Sign, p. 296)

Notice the mixing of expressions from this parable with the classic passage about the Rapture. This passage simply can not refer to
the Rapture, because it is stated that it takes place "at the end of the age," and even more importantly, the weeds, or tares, are
collected FIRST, bundled for burning (presumably at a later time - The White Throne Judgment), and THEN the wheat is gathered into
the barns.

Conclusion

I have noticed that a surprising number of young pastors have adopted the prewrath position. One possible reason for this is the
normal desire of each generation to "go beyond" the previous one. It is actually a good thing for young scholars to test what they
have been taught, and especially to compare it to the Scripture.

Another possible reason for the wide-spread interest in the prewrath theory comes from the fact that most pastors are really not up
to speed in eschatology. They realize that nearly one third of the Bible is prophecy, but they have not invested the time to know it
well. Van Kampen himself says that he spent nine thousand hours of Bible study and research during eight years to develop his
eschatology. ("Join the club, Robert! Every serious prophecy teacher has invested many years in concentrated study). What he did
though that gives a huge boost to his teaching, is to give free copies of his large and colorful book to pastors. Hopefully, most of
them will continue to read other works to balance their knowledge.

What difference does it make whether we accept the pretribulation or the prewrath viewpoint? To Van Kampen, the stakes are great.
He says, "your view of end times may determine whether you, your children, or your grandchildren survive the onslaught of Antichrist
or die at his hands." (Rapture, p. 131) Just like the postribulation view, the bottom line for the prewrath folks is survival.

By contrast, the bottom line for the pretribulation view is evangelism and holy living. But let's admit that godly prewrath
believers can be just as evangelistic as their pretribulation brothers and sisters. And shouldn't we all be wise enough to prepare
for the future? In any case, Jesus expects us to love one another.

Visit Ron Graff's Prophecy Central Web Site (http://www.Bible-prophecy.com)
************************************

70 Weeks of Daniels Prophecy
The 70th week is for Israel not the Church!
By Lori Eldridge

All the other false views on the timing of the rapture have one thing in common. They don't understand that God has a plan for the
Church and God has a plan for Israel. The Church is a mystery, a called out people between the 69th and 70th week of Daniel's
prophecy.

"Seventy weeks are determined upon THY PEOPLE and UPON THY HOLY CITY,
to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting
righteousness,
and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy." (Daniel 9:24)

**Note: notice that the 70 weeks are 'determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city'. This is the Jewish people of Israel and
Jerusalem. We could stop right here as Daniel specifically says that the 70 weeks are for Israel and not the Church. The Church is
a called out people between the 69th and 70th week. To put the Church on earth during the 70th week is to contradict Daniel above.

I repeat..... the 70 weeks are for Israel and not the Church!!! THY PEOPLE... THY PEOPLE.. THY PEOPLE!!! (ISRAEL)

Again looking at Daniel 9:24, notice that 70 Weeks of years (490 years)
are determined upon the people of Israel to:

* finish the transgression
* to make an end of sins
* to make reconciliation for iniquity
* to bring in everlasting righteousness
* to seal up the vision and prophecy
* to anoint the most Holy (The Lord Jesus in the Millennial Kingdom)

All the above has NOT yet been fulfilled. It will certainly be fulfilled upon the nation of Israel just like Daniel was told.
Lets continue on in the prophecy:

25 Know therefore and understand, [that] from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the
Messiah the Prince [shall be] seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in
troublous times.

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall
come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof [shall be] with a flood, and unto the end of the war
desolation's are determined." (Daniel 9:25,26)

These verses are talking about the 7 weeks and 62 weeks of years which add up to 69 weeks. At the end of the 69th week the
Messiah will be cut off. This happened at the cross of Calvary. So all that is left is that final week of 7 years. This final
week of years will occur after the rapture of the Church and when the anti-Christ comes to power and confirms a covenant with the
nation of Israel.

For a review of what we have already covered: Daniel said there was appointed 70 weeks of years for Israel to bring in all
righteousness and setup Messiah When Jesus entered Jerusalem in His triumphal entry it marked the end of the 69 weeks. At this
time Messiah was 'cut off'. We are now living in the time frame between the 69th and the beginning of the 70th week. After the
rapture of the church the restrainer will be removed allowing the anti-Christ to rise to power. So right now we are waiting for
the 70th week which is yet to be to be fulfilled. Also the 70th week is not for the church but is is for the nation of Israel just
like the previous 69 weeks were for Israel. To put the church in the 70th week is a form of Scripture twisting.

The 70th week begins when the anti-Christ confirms a covenant with Israel for 7 years. In the middle of the week ( 3 1/2 years)
he will break his covenant and commit the abomination of desolation. At that point he will stop the sacrifice in the rebuilt
temple in Israel and there he will claim to be God and demand worship. At this time the mark of the beast will be issued.

"And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the
oblation to cease,
and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate,
even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate." (Daniel 9:27)

Now between the 69th and the 70th week there is a time gap...commonly referred to as the Church age. Here it is in list form:

* Israel goes through the first 69 weeks of years.

* At the end of the 69 weeks of years Messiah is cut off... and He dies for the sins of lost mankind.

* After Jesus was crucified He rose from the dead. He later went back to heaven.

* At Pentecost the Holy Spirit came upon the saved and the Church was born.

* From Pentecost to today we have been in a time period referred to as the Church age. The Church is composed of saved Jews and
Gentiles.

* The Church in the world is a restraining influence keeping the anti-Christ from rising to power.

* After the rapture of the Church the restrainer will be removed and the anti-Christ will then be able to rise to power.

* After the rapture the Holy Spirit will still be in the world. The Church will be absent but the Holy Spirit will be present.
How can an omni-present being be removed from anywhere????

* The anti-Christ will confirm a 7 year covenant with Israel.

* This will start the 70th week of Daniel's prophecy. Then there will be just 7 short years to go before the Lord Jesus returns.

* A Prophetic year is 360 days.

Points to consider:

- The prophetic 70 weeks stopped at the rejection and death of the Lord Jesus Christ, The Messiah

- That occurred after 69 weeks or 483 years.

- God has been using the Church (invisible body of Christ) during that time period.

QUESTION: What caused God's prophetic time-clock to stop ticking after 69 weeks and what will cause it to resume at the 70th
Week?

Notice the following Scripture:

3. Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of
sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the
temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth [will let], until he be taken out of the way.

8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the
brightness of his coming:

9 [Even him], whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders," (2 Thessalonians 2:3-9)

God is currently restraining the anti-Christ by His Holy Spirit working in and through the Church (all the Spirit-reborn
believers). When this restrainer (The Church) is removed, then and only then may the anti-Christ be revealed so he can rise to power
and confirm the covenant with Israel.
As long as that restrainer is in the world the anti-Christ cannot come to power...God's restrainer is preventing that. (2 Thess 2:7)

None of the other rapture positions can give any account for what is restraining the anti-Christ To clear up any misconceptions
I'll say that the Holy Spirit will NOT be removed from the world. This is a common argument - based on lack of knowledge of the
pre-trib rapture. It is usually given by those who say this 'proves' the pre-trib rapture is wrong. But the pre-tribulation
rapture does NOT state that the Holy Spirit will be removed, but rather the Church will be removed. How can an omni-present being
be removed from anywhere? It cannot be done. God the Holy Spirit is omnipresent and will never cease to be anything less than that.

However in this Church age, God is restraining the Wicked One by His Holy Spirit through the Church. When the Church is removed
the Holy Spirit will still be here....but the restrainer won't! At that point the anti-Christ will be free to rise to power and
confirm that covenant with Israel to start the 70th Week of Daniel.

To restate, the 70th week is a prophetic week for the Nation of Israel (not the Church!!). The first 69 Weeks were for Israel and
so it is with the 70th week. During the 70th week God again deals with Israel and there is really no need for the Church to be
present on earth during that time period which spotlights Israel.

hestotas epi te petre (Standing on the Rock)

Lori Eldridge lorel@on-ramp.ior.com
"And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come.
And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely." (Revelation 22:17)
http://www.serve.com/rapture/zone4.html
************************************

The PRETRIB RAPTURE vs rusty swords
by Bob Ippolito

"Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, as a workman who does not
need to be ashamed, handling accurately the word of truth."

2 Tim. 2:15-NASB

The RAPTURE:
1 Cor 15: 50 Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the
imperishable.
51 Behold, I tell you a mystery; we shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised
imperishable, and we shall be changed.
and:
I Thess 4: 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in
Jesus.
15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, and remain until the coming of the Lord, shall not
precede those who have fallen asleep.
16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet of God; and
the dead in Christ shall rise first.
17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and thus we
shall always be with the Lord.
18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

I believe that the majority of sincere disagreement against the clear and consistent teaching of the Bible on the issue of a
PreTribulation Rapture of the Church, is the result of inaccurate handling of the Word of God. This is not being judgmental, but an
observation that the Bible exhibits an inherent precision that sometimes defies even the most 'diligent workmen', including this
author.

*** (Items in parenthesis may denote editorial comments within the Scriptures)
*****

PART ONE:
We can start with the very terms Tribulation, Rapture and Church.

A) TRIBULATION

Although there is always tribulation (with a small t) in the world, eschatologically this Tribulation (capital T) is a specific term
referring to End Times events outlined in Matthew 24 and 25, known as the Olivet Discourse where Christ answered his followers'
questions about the signs of His Coming at the End of the Age.

First, Jesus defines a time of Sorrows (Matt 24:1-14) and a time of Tribulation (birth pangs). He then defines a time of Great
Tribulation (Matt 24:15-28) such as the world has never seen nor will ever see again. This latter time period commences (24:15) with
the act known as The Abomination of Desolation (hereafter, AoD) spoken of by Daniel the prophet (Dan 9:27) committed by the
antichrist on a wing of the temple in Jerusalem. From other Scriptures it is established that this commencement is precisely at the
midpoint of a 7 year period known as Daniel's 70th week (Dan 9:27; 11:31). Therefore, the Great Tribulation (sometimes called The
Time of Jacob's Trouble) is a precise 3.5 year period commencing with the Abomination of Desolation and ending with the Second
Coming of Christ.

B) The ELECT, The SAINTS and the CHURCH
Part of the problem is a misunderstanding of the precise words used to define
the redeemed.

The ELECT:
1588. EKLEKTOS, ek-lek-tos'; from G1586; select; by impl. favorite:--chosen,
elect.
As mentioned in Matt 24:22, 24, and 31

The SAINTS:
40. HAGIOS, hag'-ee-os; from hagos (an awful thing) [comp. G53, H2282]; sacred (phys. pure, mor. blameless or religious, cer.
consecrated):--(most) holy (one, thing), saint.
23 times in Rev. Only once before Chapter 4, in 3:7, where it is properly translated 'holy',
not 'saints'.

The CHURCH:
1577. EKKLESIA, ek-klay-see'-ah; from a comp. of G1537 and a der. of G2564; a
calling out, i.e. (concr.) a popular meeting, espec. a religious congregation (Jewish synagogue, or Chr. community of members on
earth or saints in heaven or both):--assembly, church.
20 times in 19 verses Not mentioned at all between 3:22 and 22:16

ALL the redeemed are among the ELECT (chosen)
ALL the redeemed are SAINTS (holy and blameless)
but ALL of the redeemed are NOT the CHURCH!! (the collective Body of Christ on
earth)

Then who are the elect and the saints who are not the Church?
There are saved Old Testament saints, the 144,000 Jewish evangelists during the Tribulation, the converts of the preaching of the
144,000 who are largely martyred for their faithfulness to Christ and opposition to the antichrist - known as the Tribulation
saints. Some say "How can that be if the Church is not on earth, having already been resurrected?"

C) RAPTURE, RESURRECTION and the SECOND COMING:

The Rapture is not the first RESURRECTION, but is a PART of the first
Resurrection. At the very minimum,
Enoch was a type.
Christ was the First Fruits. I Cor 15:19-24
The Church is the main harvest.
The Tribulation saints are the gleanings at the end of the harvest.
"Blessed are those who have a part in the First Resurrection. Over them the second death has no power." Rev 20:6

The Rapture is NOT the SECOND COMING.
The Rapture is in Secret.
Christ does descend from heaven but returns with us to His Father's house; He does NOT return to earth at that time. Christ,
Himself, gathers us at His spoken word and the sound of the trumpet.

RAPTURE CONCEPTS:
The Term PreTribulation applied to the Rapture is one of the clearest teachings in the Bible in that:
* we are to keep our eyes on Christ, not on antichrist
* no one knows the day or the hour-Matt 24:36,50; 25:15
* Christ's coming for the Church does not involve a 'touchdown' on the earth with a gathering, but a translation of our bodies and a
secret meeting in the air-1 Thess 4:15
* He comes for us '"like a thief in the night"- 1 Thess 5:2; Matt 24:3
* the ark of deliverance for Noah from the judgement of the flood is a type of the Rapture- Matt 24:37
* the removal of Lot from the fiery judgement of Sodom and Gomorrah is a type of the Rapture
* the sudden disappearance of Enoch is a foreshadowing of the Rapture
* the series of allegories of Jewish betrothal (go to My Father's house to prepare a mansion, Gethsemane as the site of the
negotiation between the groom and the Bride's father over the price of the dowry, etc.) all require that the groom complete the
ritual and come in secret to elope with His bride to return to His Father's house with her
* there is a prominent set of Scriptures dealing with a 'door' of escape promised to those who are in Christ at the time of the
Rapture.-Rev 3:8; 4:1; Isa 26:20,21.
* the Shepherd must gather His flock
* the nets of the Fisherman must be pulled in
* the crop must be harvested
* the gates of hell will not prevail against the Church- Matt 16:18
and so on and on

THE FULFILLMENT OF THE RAPTURE MUST BE IN HARMONY WITH ALL THE STATEMENTS AND CONCEPTS OF THE BIBLE, and not simply in accordance
with someone's private interpretation of one or two scriptures taken out of context, or inaccurately handling the language. 2 Pet
1:20-21

PART TWO:
HOW A MISUNDERSTANDING OF THESE TERMS LEADS TO ERRONEOUS THEOLOGY ON THE RAPTURE:

Examine the following FOUR examples, frequently used to justify the Rapture during or at the end of the Tribulation:

ONE 2 THESSALONIANS 1-3 POST ANTICHRIST 2:1 Now we request you, brethren, with regard to THE COMING OF OUR LORD JESUS
CHRIST, AND OUR GATHERING TOGETHER TO HIM, (the Rapture)
2 that you may not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us,
to the effect that THE DAY OF THE LORD has come. (God's Wrath)
3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for IT will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed,
the son of destruction

Many have mistakenly said, "concerning the Rapture in verse one, IT will not come until the apostasy comes and the antichrist is
revealed, so we have to be here when he's revealed." This is incorrect.
First, this would violate all the Rapture concepts.
Secondly, re-reading the passage carefully, we realize that there are two possible subjects:
1- the Rapture -v1
2- the Day of the Lord v2
Is the correct subject for the "IT" of verse 3 the first mentioned or the last mentioned of the two choices above. Our choice of
subject will determine either of two opposing conclusions.
Answer: we can't know until we read more of the passage.

Continuing then:
6 And you know what restrains him now, so that in his time he may be revealed. (the antichrist)
7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains will do so until he is TAKEN OUT OF THE WAY. (the
Church)
8 And THEN that lawless one (antichrist) will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end
by the appearance of His coming;
9 that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders,
10 and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be
saved.

This passage clearly teaches that the Holy Spirit's work through the Church RESTRAINS the antichrist from revealing himself,
therefore the Church must first be taken out of the way. This answers the question then that the subject for the "IT" of verse 3
is 'the Day of the Lord', IT will not come until the Church is taken out of the way. (the Rapture comes first) The order then is
clearly established as: The Rapture and The Apostasy - then the revealing of the antichrist - then the Day of the Lord. The time
between events is not given.
(The Rapture could be before OR after the Apostasy -this is not made clear.)

TWO 2 THESS 2:7,8 PREWRATH VIEW ??
Some have incorrectly insisted that all of the above simply indicates a prewrath view - that THE CHURCH WOULD BE HERE UNTIL JUST
BEFORE THE ANTICHRIST COMMITS THE AOD and God pours out His wrath on the antichrist kingdom and a Christ-rejecting world, This is
according to their interpretation of 2 Thess. 2: 7, 8, where they believe that verse 7 relates to the Rapture (so do I) and that
verse 8 refers to the AoD (not necessarily so!).
7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains (the work of the Holy Spirit through the Church in
the world) will do so until he is taken out of the way (the Holy Spirit is not taken out of the world, but when the 'light of the
world/ salt of the earth /Church' is taken out of the world, the restraint work of the Holy Spirit against evil is taken out of the
way of the antichrist so that he can be revealed). 8 And THEN that lawless one (the antichrist) WILL BE REVEALED whom the Lord
will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming; (this verse does not require that the
way that he is revealed must be by committing the AoD, therefore it does not follow that the Church be here right up and until the
AoD, which would be through the first 3.5 years of Daniel's 70th week.)
Even verse 3 and 4:
3Let no one in any way deceive you, for IT (the Day of the Lord, from the discussion above) will not come unless the apostasy comes
first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
4 who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God,
displaying himself as being God.
5
(This does not impose any timing requirements upon this antagonist, but simply
LISTS some of his actions).

A) THEN (vs 8 above) does not mean immediately, but simply afterwards.
B) WILL BE REVEALED does not require the AoD be the one and only way.

How else then, could the lawless one be revealed, if not by committing the
Abomination (AoD)?
1- by taking the leadership over a ten king New World Order global government
Rev 17: 12,13
2- by instituting a 'mark of the beast' economic system controlling all buying
and selling Rev 13:16
3- by demanding worship Rev 13:18
4- by performing great signs and wonders 2 Thess 2:9
5- by recovering from a seemingly fatal wound Rev 13:3
6- by any of the characteristics attributed to him in Daniel or Revelations orany other book of the Bible.

In summary:
How do we know WHEN the Church will be raptured?
We DON'T, other than the fact that Christ will be wed to His bride in heaven while she is protected from the earthly and spiritual
chaos in progress on planet earth. Isa 26:20; Rev 13: 6; 19: 7-9

WILL WE GO CLOSE TO OR INTO DANIEL'S 70TH WEEK AT ALL? Most scholars and serious students conclude that the Church is God's higher
plan B, having known that Israel would largely reject her Messiah, thereby thwarting plan A, while God allowed for human choice. The
stopwatch stopped for Israel at the end of the 69th week of years (Dan 9:27), then 400 years of silence, then Christ's birth/
death/ Resurrection/ ascent, descent of the Holy Spirit, then: The Church - Pentecost to the Rapture- (the Great Parenthesis)
We get grafted into a cultivated olive tree
THEN the hardening of Israel is removed when the FULNESS of the GENTILES has come in (Rom 11:25)
THEN the Rapture of the Church, known only to the Father (because the fullness of the Gentiles has just come in)
THEN the stopwatch is clicked into motion again for the 70th week (of years=7 years) of Daniel, and Israel will clash with the
antichrist.

During Daniel's 70th week there will be great Salvation!
Rev 7: 9-17; 14:6

THREE THE SAINTS IN REVELATION MID-TRIB

Christ says to the angel who says to John, I will tell you about what has
been, what is, and what is to come.

Chapter One covers what HAS BEEN.

Chapters Two and Three covers what IS and the word CHURCH is mentioned 19
times in 19 verses. To one of these Churches (Philadelphia- 3:8 and 3:10)
Jesus offers a door of escape from what IS TO COME.

Chapters Four to the end, Chapter 22, covers what IS TO COME. Chapter Four opens with John (representative as a menber of the
Church ), standing BEFORE AN OPEN DOOR IN HEAVEN
a voice like THE SOUND OF A TRUMPET says COME UP HERE! and I will show you what MUST TAKE PLACE AFTER THESE THINGS. How PERFECT a
picture of the Rapture!! I Cor 15:51-52

The rest of the Revelation carefully uses the word HAGIOS for saints 23 times, but never the word EKKLESIA for Church, until all the
events have been told and Jesus gives His salutory closing to His Church.

FOUR 1 MATT 24:29-31 POST-TRIBULATION

for context:
21for then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever shall.
22 "And unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days shall be cut
short.
23 "Then if anyone says to you, 'Behold, here is the Christ,' or 'There He is,' do not believe him.
24 "For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the
elect.
25"Behold, I have told you in advance.
26 "If therefore they say to you, 'Behold, He is in the wilderness,' do not go forth, or, 'Behold, He is in the inner rooms,' do
not believe them.
27 "For just as the lightning comes from the east, and flashes even to the west, so shall the coming of the Son of Man be.
28 "Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather.
29 "But IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the
stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken,
30 and then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see
the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory.
31 "And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His ELECT from the four winds, from one
end of the sky to the other.

Many will say, "see, it says that He gathers His elect AFTER the tribulation of those days; this must be the Rapture".

However, the above passage is NOT speaking about the Rapture, but of the Second Coming of Christ where:
Christ RETURNS to earth Rev 19: 11-13
He returns WITH the bride Rev 19: 8,14
Every eye will see Him Matt 24: 30

What is notable, is that this GATHERING OF THE ELECT is being done by angels, and the ELECT who are being gathered are the LIVING
believers who have survived the holocaust of the antichrist.

See vs. 22 "And unless those days had been cut short, no LIFE would have been saved; but FOR THE SAKE OF THE ELECT those days shall
be cut short. (The ELECT are those whose EARTHY LIVES were preserved by the Lord cutting short the tyranny of the antichrist.)

See v. 24 "For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible,
even THE ELECT. (Only the LIVING ELECT can be misled; the dead are no longer deceived!)

And so it is clear that this gathering of the ELECT is NOT the Rapture of the Church, but is part of the gathering in preparation
for the judgement of the nations discussed in Matt 25:31-32.

The Bible says that in God's KINGDOM the CHURCH will rule over the NATIONS. Into the millennium will also be the sheep from the
separation of the sheep and the goats in Matt. 26: 31-46.

DOES ANY OF THIS MATTER?

YES!!
We are told concerning the signs of the End of the Age:
Matt 24: 33 "when you see all these things, recognize that He is near, right at the door."
and:
Luke 21: 28 "But when these things begin to take place, straighten up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing
near."
and:
Luke 21: 36 "But keep on the alert at all times, praying in order that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that
are about to take place, and to stand before the Son of Man."
and:
Titus 2: 11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, 12 instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly
desires and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in the present age, 13 looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the
glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus; and finally:
Rom 8: 15 For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons
by which we cry out, "Abba! Father!"

As we see the day fast approaching, we do not live in fear of an approaching antichrist, but we lift up our heads, and we look
forward to our redemption by Christ.

Let no man deprive us of this Blessed Hope of His Appearing for us!

Maranatha!
Come Lord Jesus.

Bob Ippolito - 9/18/98

For a free Email subscription to The Watchman's Trumpet*, a newsletter
analysis of Scripture, prophecy and the news, send an Email request to
WatchmanT@aol.com.

*A publication of I/D Ministries - (Ippolito/Defuria)
************************************

THE POST RAPTURE SURVIVAL GUIDE
by Kurt Seland

The purpose of this manual is twofold:

(a) First of all, it is to warn those who receive this manual prior to the "rapture" of the soon to occur events that will take
place in the "last days" as foretold in the Bible. Based on what the Bible has to say about future events, nobody in their right
mind would want live on earth after the rapture. Hopefully many will read, believe, seek God, repent and be saved. Salvation is very
simple, so simple to attain that most people cannot accept it. However, it is complex because it is life changing and based on that
which we cannot see; it is based on faith. Simple, because Jesus does all the work. If you want to be saved and have eternal life,
simply pray in belief and humility to Lord Jesus:

"Lord Jesus, I know that I am a sinner and ask you to forgive me of my sins and prepare for me a new heart. I surrender my life to
you."

Now change the way you live your life so that it is in accordance with God's laws.

If you have done this prior to the rapture, get a Bible and start reading and studying it. Go to the Lord in prayer every day asking
for guidance as to how to live.

b) Second, to those left behind after the rapture, this is indeed a survival manual. You still have an opportunity to repent and
have eternal life. The same prayer of salvation is applicable to you; the only difference is that you will spend a little time
experiencing a taste of hell while you remain on earth.

Let me be real frank with you. If you are reading this manual and the rapture has already occurred, then you probably are not going
to physically survive; you most likely will die. This manual is about the survival of your soul. You are going to go through
terrible suffering. The only question is whether you will go to Heaven or go to hell when you die.

1. Definition: Rapture- This is the event that will occur when Jesus calls His followers (both gentile and Jewish believers) with a
trumpet blast, and in the "twinkling of an eye" they will be removed from the earth and transported to be with Jesus in the heavens.
For those of Jewish heritage who are familiar with the seven feasts of the Old Testament that are celebrated each year, the rapture
is portrayed by the feast of trumpets described at Leviticus 23:24. The Jewish feast of trumpets symbolized a regathering. At the
trumpet call of the rapture, it will be a regathering of believers to be with Jesus, and for the Jews left behind on earth it will
be the final regathering to the physical nation of Israel.

Interestingly, those who have died and are followers of Jesus will respond first to the call (I Thess 4:16). It very well may be
that, as it happened when Jesus was crucified and resurrected, when the dead saints arose from the dead and walked amongst the
living (Matthew chapter 27), that at the rapture the dead saints may walk briefly on earth again.

2. Biblical Foundation for the Rapture
"Take notice, I am telling you a secret. We shall not all die but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye,
at the last trumpet call. For the trumpet will sound and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall all be changed." I
Corinthians 15:51-52
"For with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and the trumpet of God, the Lord Himself will descend from Heaven, and those who
died in Christ will rise first. Afterward we, the living who remain, will be caught up along with them in the clouds to meet the
Lord in the air. And so we shall forever be with the Lord." I Thessalonians 4:16-17
"...For I am going away to prepare a place for you. And when I have gone and have prepared a place for you, I will come again and
take you to Myself so that where I am, you also will be." John 14:2-3
3. Events and Circumstances Prior to the Rapture
At the time that this manual is being written, and for the remainder of the time left in this age, the one word that describes the
condition of the world is change. All this change is being accomplished through the work of Satan, as he can not tolerate anything
that originated from God's creation. Originally, the Bible tells us that when God created the world He declared that it was "good".
That means that it was perfect and no changes were necessary.
Included in His creation were standards to live by that He gave to Adam and Eve. These standards covered everything from how to live
in our private lives to domestic relationships to principles for governing a community.
Satan seeks to change everything that God has created and established, thus he has used his power and influence in the world to make
changes. None of these changes are good for humankind because all of these changes are opposed to God's original intent. Satan's
goal is to establish a world order headed by his protege (the world dictator known in the Bible as the Beast and anti-Christ) who
will spend his time and effort changing everything to be in opposition to God's will as expressed in the Bible. This is predicted in
the Bible in the book of Daniel, "and he will intend to make alterations in times and in law."

POLITICAL
In today's (1996) political environment there is no effective leadership in the world. Every nation lacks strong and competent
leaders able to deal with the problems at home and abroad. The United States, which has been the world leader for the last 50 years,
has steadily lost its influence among other nations because of political leaders in the United States who have no moral center to
direct their decision making process. However, this distrust and dislike of government and government leaders is not just an
American phenomenon but is a common theme worldwide: Europe, South America and Asia. Because of this leadership vacuum in the world,
there is now an opportunity for a man to arise who is very charismatic, strong, and attractive to peoples of all nations. Based on
the prophecies in the Bible such a man will arise, and he will be successful in uniting the various nations to rule as a dictator.

The move to unite the world under one government has been active since the early 1900's, and in the 1990's this became more of a
reality as the nations of this world began to give up their sovereignty to the United Nations during armed intervention of conflicts
between nations (Kuwait, Somalia, Bosnia). In these conflicts, the nations of the world contributed manpower and machinery to be
used under the flag of the United Nations. The United States of America surrendered its sovereignty in these situations to much
weaker nations by allowing its military to be controlled by these nations. In addition to these military actions the nations of the
world also agreed to controlled trade and labor practices with international treaties such as NAFTA and GATT.

Thus in the 1990's there is no dominant nation to provide leadership to the world setting the stage for a man to arise out of the
masses to unite the world as dictator.

SOCIAL
The foundational building block of society, that element which has always been responsible for social order and peace, is the
family, and it has been virtually destroyed. The family is to be a man, his wife and their children. The man provides for the wife
and children, the wife nurtures and educates the children, and the children obey their parents. In a community of families, each
adult holds the other adults and children accountable for their actions.
The family is based on marriage.

Marriage is an institution of God and therefore hated by Satan. Satan has worked very hard, primarily through communications media
such as TV, movies, news journalists, and entertainment in general to convince women that marriage is detrimental to their freedom
and fulfillment in life. Satan has deceived women into believing that they are the same as men and that all differences are the
result of culture. Satan has worked very hard to convince women that their sexual gratification should come from outside of
marriage, preferably with other women. Satan has worked hard to divide men and women and have them at war with one another, and
because of this, the violence between men and women dramatically increased beginning in the 1980's. After the rapture, more than
likely, the family as it is known today will be eliminated. Children will become wards of the state and marriage will be
discouraged.

Civil war has been the theme of the 1980's and 1990's and will continue into the end times: man vs. women, black vs. white, Moslem
vs. Jew, Catholic vs. Protestant, Moslem vs. Christian, one Moslem faction vs. another Moslem faction, one black African tribe vs.
another black African tribe, nation vs. nation, people vs. people.
Whatever divides people into different groups Satan uses to inspire hate, strife and violence.

Homosexuality and all sorts of perverse behavior have come to be accepted as normal. The world dictator(anti-Christ) himself will
not have the normal sexual attraction to women and may be asexual. Many theologians believe that he will probably be openly
homosexual as indicated in the Bible in the book of Daniel 11:37; "and he will show no regard for the gods of his fathers or for the
desire of women...". And therefore after the rapture more than likely marriage will be discouraged or illegal, and homosexual and
lesbian relationships highly encouraged.

ECONOMIC
On the economic scene the trend is toward poverty for the masses with wealth concentrated into the hands of very few people. These
controllers of the wealth will be the kings of commerce and banking and also be the power behind politics of the world. Small
businesses are merged into larger companies and the larger companies merge with themselves to increase profits. The result is huge
multi-national companies that have no allegiance to any community, state, nation or people, whose only allegiance is to increased
profits for management and shareholders. The result is workers who are little more than peasants and presidents of companies who are
more and more kings. It will be these "kings" who usher in the world dictator to protect their wealth and power. Expect all
commerce, buying and selling, to be controlled by a mark on the right hand or forehead of every person who wants to participate in
the economy. Only those people with the mark will be able to buy and sell, but the consequences of taking the mark is eternal
damnation. Therefore don't take that mark. You will have a very difficult time surviving, and probably won't, but you will save your
soul. Again, don't take the mark on your right hand or forehead.

Another thing that will come back into vogue after the rapture will be slavery. The book of Revelation speaks of the slave trade
after the rapture. The slaves will more than likely be Jews and Christians (those who converted after the rapture) but there will
also be many children and poor that will be caught into slavery.

GEOPHYSICAL
In the gospel of Matthew chapter 24 Jesus spoke to his disciples and indicated to them that one of the signs of the time of the end
of the world would be, "...as it were in the days of Noah so will the coming of the son of man be..." We read in Genesis that in the
days of Noah that "the earth was filled with violence...". This speaks not only of the violence that men inflict on one another for
certainly the earth is filled with that kind of violence; wars, civil wars, rape, brutality, murder, abortion, indiscriminate random
acts of violence but the earth itself is also filled with violence. We see increasing earthquakes, volcanoes, hurricanes, tornadoes,
floods, draught, lightening storms and unusual atmospheric phenomena. While all of these have existed in the past, over the last 50
years the number and intensity of these conditions and the property damage associated with these natural catastrophes has increased.
As the level of violence that the human species has inflicted on one another has increased, so has the violent reaction of the earth
increased.

4. Signs of the Times
When Jesus disciples asked Him about the signs that would be a precursor to His coming and the end of the age He responded that
there would be (Matthew chapter 24):

Wars and rumors of wars
Nation will rise against nation. It is very interesting to note that the Greek word that is translated as nation is "ethnos" which
deals with ethnic background and race. Most of the wars and conflicts in the 1980's and 1990's are wars amongst ethnic groups and
tribes.
Kingdom will rise against kingdom
Famines
Earthquakes "these will be like the early pangs of childbirth", that is, as the time grows nearer and nearer to His coming, the
frequency and intensity of these five signs will increase.
The followers of Jesus will be handed over to be persecuted and killed -This is happening with more frequency in the Moslem
controlled nations in the Middle East and in Africa where Black Moslems are enslaving Black Christians.
Christians will be hated by all nations on account of His name. In many parts of the world Christians are jailed and killed for
their beliefs; in the United States those who are Christians are hated by the media and liberals and are known by the code words
"religious right".
Many will fall away...that is, many who claimed to be Christians will recant their faith and betray and hate Christians.
Many false prophets will arise and deceive many
Due to excessive lawlessness, the love of many will grow cold

5. The Rapture
This is an event that will not be hidden. The concept of the rapture will be made known to the disbelieving masses (those of you who
do not know Jesus as your Lord and Messiah) before it occurs. It will be treated with ridicule, contempt and mockery by the world's
media, but God will see to it that it will be highly publicized before it occurs just so that those left behind might still come to
their senses. It will occur in the open, and everybody left behind will know somebody that was raptured. It will happen suddenly,
unexpectedly, and lightning fast--"in the twinkling of an eye" as the Bible puts it. And there will be evidence all over the world
that this event occurred. Some national leaders will disappear, celebrities in entertainment and professional sports will disappear,
entire families will disappear, disbelieving spouses will see their mates vanish, children will disappear. Bank accounts, homes,
cars, businesses and relationships will be left behind. The problem for the world's leaders will be trying to convince people that
it didn't happen. Because if the world's leaders admit that it did happen then logically everything Christians preached about Jesus
Christ being the Son of God, the Savior, the Messiah, the Prince of Peace, the Lord of Lords and King of Kings and everything that
Jesus preached and taught must be true. And if all of this is true, then the only logical response would be to fall on one's knees
before God in confession and repentance and absolute submission to every word of God (as revealed in the Bible). But all of this is
diametrically opposed to the way of the world which preaches freedom from the constraints of God's word, perverse sex, materialism
and the devaluation of human life. So, although the rapture will shock everybody and will be covered in the media and everybody left
will be aware of someone who is gone the leaders of the world will begin their great deception, that is convincing the population
left behind that there was no rapture. How is this going to be accomplished? Well, pretty easily because most of the people left
behind are already in a state of deception. They have been deceived into believing that Jesus is not the Messiah; they have been
deceived into believing that the word of God is not true; they have been deceived into living in a lifestyle that only brings
constant pain and suffering instead of the freedom and paradise that God offers. The world's leaders will declare that there was no
rapture, that a mass hysteria took place, and the news media will follow the party line. Then to make things easier, shortly after
the rapture, one-fourth of the world's population will be decimated due to wars, famine and plague.
Those who were raptured will be counted as amongst the dead.

6. After the Rapture

Shortly after the rapture, a seven year period known in the Bible as the Great Tribulation will take place. It will begin with the
signing of a peace agreement between Israel and her enemies and it will end with the physical return of Jesus Christ to set up His
kingdom on earth. In between will be seven years of terror for those on earth. The following events and trends will take place in
that seven year period :

A man will arise who will achieve victory after victory both in politics and in war. This man, who should be easily identified by
his rapid rise and popularity, is your anti-Christ Many people believe that this person must be Jewish.
That is, in order for Jews to accept him as Messiah, only a Jew will suffice. This is not necessarily the case; the Bible does not
specify that he is a Jew, and it does not specify nationality. Only God-fearing Jews will require a Jewish Messiah. The liberal
ungodly Jews who dominate Israel will be as lost when it comes to Biblical truth as the gentiles of the world and will be deceived
by his charisma, and more than likely, the desires of the world's media. Currently the new nick-name for the United States is the
Great Satan. This may have some significance.

Violence will increase in all parts of the world both nation against nation (ethnic wars) and domestically. Men will
indiscriminately slay one another as peace will be removed from the earth.

There will be extreme inflation, poverty, and lack of food as one day's wages will buy enough food for one day for one person.

In a very short period of time, one-quarter of the earth's population will be killed due to wars, famine, pestilence and wild
beasts. These wild beasts could very well be viruses, bacteria and other microbes. In late 1995 Time magazine ran a cover story on
the rise of new infections and called microbes "malevolent little beasts".

Many people will experience a religious conversion and become followers of Jesus Christ and most of these people will be hunted down
and killed.

There will be a great earthquake, the sun will be blackened, the moon will turn red and all mountains and islands (which are
underwater mountains) will be moved.

There will be a brief period of calm on the earth following this great earthquake which will give those who survive a false sense of
security. Then,
A third of the earth, one-third of all trees and all the green grass will be burned up due to a comet or meteor that hits the earth.
Then,

A meteor will hit the earth causing the sea to become like blood, killing one-third of all sea creatures and destroying one-third of
all shipping. Then,

A "star" named Wormwood will fall from the sky and poison one-third of all fresh water killing many people.

The sun, moon and stars will be darkened by one-third. The day and night will be reduced by one-third. There is some speculation
that this means the rotation of the earth will be changed so that a day lasts only 16 hours instead of 24 hours.

Fearsome locust-like beings will be released from underground who only attack people who are not followers of Jesus Christ. These
attacks will be very painful but last only 5 months.

An army of 200 million horse-like creatures will kill one-third of mankind.
Two men (known as witnesses, see item 7 below) of Jewish origin will preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ for 3 1/2 years and be killed
at the midpoint of the 7 year tribulation. These two will be responsible for a 3 1/2 year world-wide draught and will be killed by
the anti-Christ (also known as the beast in the Bible).

People will be required to receive a mark on their right hand or forehead in order to buy and sell. Those who receive this mark will
develop a loathsome and malignant sore on their bodies within a short period of time.
The oceans will chemically change and become like the blood of a dead man (congealed?) and everything in the sea will die.

The fresh waters will become like blood.

The sun will scorch the people on earth with fierce heat.

The throne of the anti-Christ and his kingdom will become darkened.

The Euphrates river will dry up allowing the kings of the east to march westward.

The kings of the world will gather their armies together to battle God at Armageddon. There will be a great earthquake, so great
that all the mountains and islands will disappear. There will be hailstones weighing close to 100 pounds that will crush the armies
that have gathered.

Shortly after this great earthquake, Jesus Christ will return with His army to claim the earth as His possession.

7. The Two Witnesses

These two men are God's gift to the people of the earth who refused to submit to the lordship of Jesus Christ prior to the rapture,
but who will recognize the error in their life and seek God knowing the terrible mistake they have made. These two men will proclaim
the gospel and provide hope for those left behind. Their message is for the salvation of the soul and to eternal life. They will
have no message as to how you can avoid the hell that life on earth has become, because there is no hope to avoid that tribulation.
If you are left on earth, then your destiny is to suffer and more than likely die. But you still have the hope of salvation. Listen
to what these two men are preaching and turn to God.

The Bible does not say who these two men are. Many speculate that they are Elijah and Enoch, two ancient prophets of God who never
died. Regardless, they will be responsible for many of the natural catastrophes that will reek havoc on the property and economy of
the earth. They will have the power to prevent rain, and there will be a 3 1/2 year draught on earth until they die. They will turn
water into blood and cause all kinds of plagues on earth and in general make life miserable for those who are living on earth. Also,
they will be invincible, as many will try to kill them only to be killed by their own hands. Those who attempt to blow them up will
themselves be blown up; those who attempt to shoot them will have their guns explode in their hands; those who attempt to poison
them will be poisoned by their own efforts. Only the world dictator will be able to kill them and only when God allows it.

The purpose of all the misery that these two witnesses inflict on the earth dwellers is to turn people back to God in repentance.
The misery will be so great that when the world dictator does finally kill these two the world will rejoice in a Christmas-like
celebration, giving gifts to one another. Three and one-half days after their death they will be resurrected and in full view of the
entire population of the world ascend to heaven at the command of God when He calls them to "Come up here". Shortly after he kills
the two witnesses, the world dictator will declare himself to be God. He is the anti-Christ

8. The 144,000 Jewish Witnesses

Shortly after the rapture, God will call His army of 144,000 Jewish believers into service to provide a voice of hope for Jews
throughout the world. The best friends and most staunch supporters of Jews have always been true believing Christians. It was this
element of the world's population that provided help and support for Israel and Jewish people. The rapture removed the Christian
people from the earth and awakened the 144,000 to their purpose. These 144,000 preach to Jews worldwide that Jesus is the Messiah.
These 144,000 will be spread out worldwide and more than likely go about in pairs, two by two, as Jesus instructed His disciples to
do. It will be these 144,000 who will oppose Israel signing a peace treaty for protection; it will be the 144,000 who will identify
the anti-Christ for who he is; it will be the 144,000 who will warn Israel of the treachery of the anti-Christ, and it will be the
144,000 who will lead the Jews worldwide to the hiding place prepared for them by God in the Judean desert. These 144,000 Jews are
going to be strange people by normal standards: they will be celibate, very bold, fearless, spiritually strong and probably very
much like John the Baptist.

9. Money

Hard currency will become obsolete. This is no surprise, as banks and governments have been working to eliminate currency, coin
money and paper transactions for decades. Currency and coin is expensive to produce, lends itself to readily for drug trafficking
and, with high tech equipment, is too easily counterfeited. Banks desire to eliminate the teller position as an expense item, and
with the elimination of paper checks and currency, all financial transactions can be handled with a computer. The debit card will
become the tool for all personal financial

http://www.novia.net/~todd/rap34.html
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PROPHEZINE NEWSLETTER - Commentaries
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Lee Underwood <fyi@tzemach.org>
F.Y.I. - Israel in the News Week Ending:
19 September 19, 1998/28 Elul 5758
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"And I shall strengthen the house of Judah, and I shall save the house of Joseph, and I shall bring them back, because I have had
compassion on them; And they will be as though I had not rejected them, for I am the L-rd their G-d, and I will answer them."
Zechariah 10.6
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

SUMMIT IN D.C.? US President Clinton is trying to arrange a three-way summit with Palestinian Authority (PA/PLO) leader Yassir
Arafat and Israeli Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu in hopes of concluding an elusive deal on a withdrawal from Judea and Samaria.
All three will be in New York for the opening session of the United Nations General Assembly this coming week. An Israeli Foreign
Ministry official Yitzhak said Netanyahu probably would not be able to attend the summit because of scheduling conflicts. The
Israeli leader, however, may be able to meet separately with US Secretary of State Madeleine Albright. Arafat's advisor said
Thursday the PLO leader will agree to a summit only if Netanyahu accepts the US plan for troop withdrawal. Netanyahu has repeatedly
rejected the US plan which calls for an Israeli withdrawal from 13 percent of the disputed territory. He has said he will
unconditionally hand over 10 percent of the land, plus an additional 3 percent with some conditions.

Meanwhile, US Mideast envoy Dennis Ross is scheduled to leave the area early Sunday. All sides agree that progress in the talks has
been made; however, the extent is still not known. (AP, ISRAEL LINE, NANDO TIMES)

ARAFAT'S FATAH: ROSS IS A 'RACIST ZIONIST SHYLOCK':
"The first thing President Clinton must do is remove Dennis Ross from the entire Middle East issue, because President Clinton knows
that the source of the Palestinians' suspicions regarding the mediator's bias and unfairness is Dennis Ross'
behavior and his ideas, which lean towards the policies of Netanyahu. Similarly, Ross himself knows that he is undesirable to the
Palestinian side and that he is part of the oppressive racist Zionist actions which are armed with immense imperialistic influence
Dennis Ross amuses himself on his visits like Shylock, deriving pleasure from imagining how he will slice three percent from the
body of his victim. It does not enter his mind that the spilling of blood will be unavoidable. Brother Abu Ammar [Arafat] knew that
Ross' visits would be a waste of time . . . Thus, he [Arafat] asked President Clinton to send Mrs. Albright as a sign of his
seriousness. In addition, she more accurately reflects the policies which Clinton wants, and not the policies sought by the Likudnik
Zionist lobby in the American Administration and in Congress, which are being pursued by Dennis Ross." (Excerpted from a column
published by Arafat's Fatah faction of the PLO in the official PA/PLO newspaper AL-HAYAT AL-
JADEEDA, September 16, 1998.)

ARAB LEAGUE MEETING CONCLUDES: In Cairo Thursday, the Arab League concluded its twice-annual meeting of foreign ministers from
throughout the Arab world. The Arab League's secretary-general, Esmat Abdel meguid, told reporters the foreign ministers unanimously
agreed to call for sanctions against Israel until, as he put it, Israel implements the international accords it has signed. The
ministers asked the
United States, Russia, Britain, France, China to pressure the Jewish state to resume negotiations with the PA/PLO. The call for
unspecified sanctions came after Arafat addressed the two-day meeting and asked for Arab support to help the Palestinians declare an
independent state this coming May. They also called on Israel to implement the UN resolution which requires it to withdraw from its
occupation zone in Lebanon unconditionally, the sources said. Almost 10 countries of the 22-member league did not send their foreign
ministers to the meeting, citing internal and external obligations. The absentees include Saudi Arabia and other Gulf Arab states,
Morocco and Algeria. (VOA, REUTERS)

PLO TO ADDRESS UN: On Monday, 181 of the 185 UN member-states plan to enter into the General Assembly's annual debate, the two-week
marathon of speeches that lets leaders from nations big and small focus on what, according to them, are the globe's most pressing
problems. The PLO will speak to the assembly for the first time, due to a vote this summer to enhance their observer mission's
status. The vote gave the PLO many of the same rights as member-states to participate in assembly matters, except for the right to
vote. Arafat plans to use his speech to try to gain support for plans to declare a Palestinian state in May 1999, Palestinian
officials have said. The PA/PLO has already begun plans to prepare for statehood (F.Y.I. - 05.09.98). Aside from approval from the
Arab League, the PA/PLO has received support for statehood from several European nations as well as 'a nod' from the US. May 1999 is
the date the signers of the Oslo Accords had envisioned as the completion of the "peace process". (AP)

BANK DEPOSITS INCREASE DUE TO CRISIS IN RUSSIA:
Since the worsening of the economic crisis in Russia, tens of millions of dollars have been transferred to Israel. The money was
deposited in Israeli banks and funds have not been withdrawn to banks abroad. Banking sources said that owners of Russian bank
accounts have sent additional funds to their accounts here in recent weeks. Russians have deposited between $1 billion and $2
billion in Israeli banks and in the past two months there have not been significant withdrawals of deposits from these accounts.
Over $1.5 billion have been transferred from Russia to foreign banks since late July.
(MA'ARIV)

5.993 MILLION RESIDENTS IN ISRAEL, ON EVE OF JEWISH NEW YEAR: On the eve of the Jewish New Year 5759, (20.9.98) Israel's population
is estimated to be 5.993 million, of whom 4.756 million (79.4%) are Jews and 887,000 (14.8%) are Muslims. Over the past year,
Israel's population has grown by 133,000. At the same time, there has been a slowing in the rate of population growth, from 2.6% in
the previous year to 2.2% this year. Net immigration, as a portion of overall population growth, was somewhat less this year than
last, 31% vs. 37%. The country's Jewish population rose in the past year by 79,600. 68% of the increase stemmed from natural
increase (the number of births minus the number of deaths). The rate of increase in the past year was 1.7%, in contrast to 2.0% in
the previous year. Furthermore, in the past year 58,000 immigrants arrived in Israel. Nearly 80% of the total came from the
countries of the former Soviet Union.

Avi Beker, head of the World Jewish Congress branch in Israel, discussed his recently-published world Jewish population study with
ARUTZ-7 correspondent Ron Meir. He said that the total Jewish population in the world is 13.5 million, compared with 18 million
before the Holocaust. Beker said that at current rates, Israel will house a majority of the world's Jews within approximately a
decade. He summed up the tremendous rate of Jewish assimilation by saying, "As conditions improve for the Jews, the situation gets
worse for Judaism," and said that the solution must come in the form of more Jewish education. An editorial in MA'ARIV attributes
the world Jewish decline to "negative natural growth, ... assimilation ... and immigration to Israel." Accordingly, the paper calls
for increased efforts to bring Diaspora Jews closer to Israel, which it calls a "vital mission", and suggests that, "if we do not
succeed, within a single generation, in providing Diaspora Jews with a sense of closeness to Israel and of belonging to the Jewish
collective, we Israelis will become the last remaining Jews in the world." HATZOFEH newspaper, too, recommends increased government
efforts to facilitate the immigration of Jews to Israel, and the promotion of Jewish education and of a traditional Jewish lifestyle
as "guarantors against assimilation in the Diaspora." Meanwhile, the worldwide rate of assimilation stands at roughly 50 percent.
The US remains home to the world's largest Jewish community, with 5.6 million.

Meanwhile, Yesha Council head Pinchas Wallerstein, in a pre-Rosh Hashanah interview with ARUTZ-7, said that the Jewish population of
Judea and Samaria grew in the past year by 10%. He said that he foresees an even greater increase in the coming year. (CBS, ISRAEL
LINE)

HAMAS STILL RAGING: In Hebron, more than 3,000 supporters of the terrorist Islamic group Hamas rallied Saturday, waving green Hamas
flags and singing nationalistic songs. PA/PLO police did not interfere with the march, staged in a Palestinian-controlled area. "The
blood of our murdered ones will not be wasted!" said Hamas spiritual leader Sheik Ahmed Yassin, addressing the demonstrators by
telephone hookup from Gaza. Hamas has vowed to avenge the Sept. 11 killings of brothers Imad and Adel Awadallah, top fugitives who
were shot dead by Israeli troops in a raid on their hideout. Near the PA/PLO-controlled town of Ram'Allah, Israeli troops and
Palestinian demonstrators fought small-scale skirmishes over several hours on Saturday. About 20 youths on a highway overpass
outside Ram'Allah tore down protective fencing meant to keep them from stoning motorists. "Allah akbar (god is great!)" they shouted
as they flung chunks of stone that slammed into a passing Israeli army jeep. Soldiers jumped out, guns at the ready, and fired tear
gas to disperse the youths. No injuries were reported. Later, near an Israeli checkpoint south of Ram'Allah, Palestinians threw
stones at soldiers and burned tires, sending plumes of black smoke into the air.

When discussing the killing of key leaders and activists of militant Islam, the "how" is no less, and perhaps even more, important
that the "who" and "why". Experience has shown that the method and circumstances in which the terrorist meets his death have a
deciding influence on his organization's motivation to avenge him and also on the extent of the murderousness of the series of
revenge attacks. According to the principles of Islam, a sophisticated method of elimination, relying on high-tech, is considered
insulting and treacherous and it is liable to necessitate a murderous response that will wash away in blood both the mourning and
the insult. Among other things, it emphasizes the failure and powerlessness of the terrorist leader and of the Islamic society from
which he sprouted, in the face of the technological superiority of those responsible for his death. However, if the victim was
permitted to die with honor, as befits a martyr, there is no reason for an extraordinary act of revenge. This, apparently, was the
main reason why Israeli security forces chose to kill the Awadallah brothers in what at least seemed to be a battle, and not by
remote control. Meanwhile, Israel will hold the bodies of the Awadallah brothers as a bargaining chip. O.C. Central Command Moshe
Ya'alon strongly objects to returning the bodies to their families. (AP, YEDIOT AHARONOT, ARUTZ-7)

PALESTINIAN SHOT BY SETTLER: An Israeli motorist said he opened fire at a group of Palestinian stone throwers Thursday morning in
the village of Beitunya, near Ram'Allah, killing one and wounding another. A 35-year-old settler from one of the Jewish communities
near Beitunya has turned himself in to Binyamin police. The driver was traveling from Givat Ze'ev (north of Jerusalem) to Dolev when
he was attacked by stone-throwing Arabs between the villages of Bitunia and Ein Arik. The Arabs, who had placed obstacles on the
road, surrounded and stoned the car. The man called for help on his radio, but when troops failed to arrive he was forced to open
fire, fearing his life was in danger, the report said. The road has become the site of frequent Arab attacks against cars from the
Jewish communities of Dolev and Talmon, including stonings and road-blockades. HA'ARETZ reported that in the past few days, there
has been a large number of incidents in Judea and Samaria during which Palestinians have hurled stones at cars with Israeli license
plates. Israel Defense Forces (IDF) sources say Fatah [the PLO faction headed by Arafat], as well as Hamas, have been involved in
the incidents. (ARUTZ-7, ISRAEL LINE)

CURFEW IMPOSED: Israel imposed a closure on the PA/PLO areas from Friday through the New Year holiday which ends Tuesday evening.
However, the closures are not absolute, as thousands of Palestinians routinely evade checkpoints by entering Israel on back roads.
Israel army radio broadcast warnings about the possible kidnapping of soldiers, thousands of whom will be hitch-hiking across the
country to and from their bases this holiday weekend. (VOA)

TEMPLE MOUNT HIGHLIGHTED: For the first time, a government figure has given his blessing to an event calling for the
re-establishment of the Holy Temple. Deputy Education Minister Moshe Peled (Tsomet), in a pre-recorded appearance, spoke to the
participants of Tuesday night's annual gala event in honor of the Beit HaMikdash, and will called for the "inculcation of the values
of the Temple in the educational system and among the country's youth." Yehuda Etzion (leader of Chai Vekayam), one of the
organizers of the event, says that its purpose is to restore the Temple Mount to its rightful holy place in the Jewish nation, "and
in the future, to rebuild the Temple." One thousand participants viewed specially-prepared videos on the Temple service and related
issues, heard poems and speeches from rabbis and public figures, and listened to musical and cantorial selections. Many foreign
reporters covered the event.

Meanwhile, for the fourth time in two weeks, members of the Chai Vekayam organization were acquitted of charges relating to their
desire to pray on the Temple Mount. Judge Friedman-Feldman found the four members -- including Prof. Hillel Weiss -- innocent of
charges that they "illegally assembled" on the Mount. She ruled that they were the victims of rioting by Moslems and Waqf personnel
there. (ARUTZ-7)

80 SIGN-UP FOR HOMES AT HAR HOMA: Some 80 families have registered to buy apartments at Har Homa in Jerusalem, despite the fact that
construction on the controversial site has not begun. The southeastern Jerusalem neighborhood-to-be was the focus of international
contention a year and a half ago, when Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu approved plans to build Jewish housing there. The
1,850-dunam (462.5-acre) site is located between Ramat Rachel and Gilo. "All the infrastructure -- water, sewerage, electricity --
was completed months ago," said Danny Nahamu-Cohen, site manager for the Shai Shem Tov construction company. "We're ready to market
Har Homa," said Ministry of Construction and Housing spokesman Moshe Friedman. Netanyahu's communications director David Bar-Illan
said the prime minister is waiting for the "appropriate time" to issue the tenders and that "the only thing [Netanyahu] has said is
that, by the year 2000, Har Homa will be built". (JERUSALEM POST)

WORLD RELIGIOUS LEADERS GATHER: On Wednesday, international leaders from the Buddhist, Christian, Hindu, Islamic, Jain, Jewish,
Native American, Shinto, Sikh, and other faith traditions and communities gathered together for a one-hour service. Addressing the
congregation in various languages, they prayed, chanted, sang and read passages from religious texts to demonstrate their united
support for world peace. "This service is one of the newest traditions on the United Nations calendar," the UN Secretary-General
said.
(UN PRESS RELEASE)

20TH ANNIVERSARY OF THE CAMP DAVID ACCORDS: On the eve of the 20th anniversary of the September 17, 1978 Camp David Accords between
Israel and Egypt, the Israel Government Press Office (GPO) is released a special report concerning anti-Semitism and Holocaust
denial in the official Egyptian press. The report contains political cartoons and excerpts from articles which have appeared in the
Egyptian press in recent months. The report can be found on the World Wide Web at the following address: http://www.pmo.gov.il/egypt
.

The report notes that the 1979 Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty states, "The Parties shall seek to foster mutual understanding and
tolerance and will, accordingly, abstain from hostile propaganda against each other." (Article 5 (3) of Annex III) Despite two
decades of peace, anti-Semitic themes permeate the official Egyptian media. Four recurrent themes are discernible: classic
anti-Semitic stereotypes, comparisons of Israel with the Nazis, denial of the Holocaust, and traditional libels. The official
Egyptian media repeatedly questions the extent of the Holocaust and accuses Jews of inflating the number of victims to pressure
Western countries. It also equates Israel with the Nazis and Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu with Adolf Hitler. Newspaper articles
refer to Jews as "swindlers" and "tricksters". Political cartoons depict Israel as the "ugly Jew", bearing a remarkable likeness to
the stereotype in the Nazi Der Stuermer. Israel is accused of spreading AIDS and other diseases in Arab countries, and of attempting
to foment civil war in Egypt. After the terrorist attack at Luxor, in which 60 tourists were killed, the Egyptian media sought to
implicate Israel in the attack.

Meanwhile, the Egyptian Ambassador to Israel, Muhammad Bassyouni, warns of possible war between the two countries. Speaking at a
gathering in honor of the 20th anniversary of the Camp David agreements Wednesday night, Bassyouni said that a clash between Israel
and the Palestinians could lead to an armed conflict between Israel and Egypt. He did not relate to the Israel Government Press
Office's report of yesterday detailing official Egyptian anti-Semitism in the Egyptian press. Israel's Ambassador in Egypt said that
current relations between the two countries are about "half" of what is usual between states with diplomatic relations. (GPO,
ARUTZ-7)

REPRINT: HEBRON-PAST, PRESENT AND FOREVER (By David Wilder -- The Jewish Community of Hebron) A New Year in Hebron September 17,
1998

This New Year is going to be very special for me and my family. For the last 17 years we lived in Kiryat Arba. Moving to Kiryat Arba
was one of the best decisions my wife and I ever made. Arriving 2 weeks before the birth of our second child, we never regretted
bringing up our family in this wonderful town, only five minutes from Ma'arat HaMachpela and the center of Hebron. In spite of the
negative image portrayed by the media, Kiryat Arba is a fabulous place to raise children. The atmosphere is generally relaxed, the
educational facilities excellent, and the people second to none. However, a few weeks ago, we decided to move. There was a vacancy
in Hebron. One of the families, due to a job opportunity, had to leave. My wife and I talked about possibly moving in. We discussed
it for a while and hadn't yet made up our minds. But then the unthinkable happened: an Arab terrorist climbed into the bedroom
window of Rabbi Shlomo Ra'anan in Tel Rumeida and murdered him. The day after his funeral I said to my wife, "That's it - we have to
move in, and the sooner the better."
Actually I wanted to make the move during the shiva, but for technical reasons that wasn't possible. But soon after that we were
setting up house in our new apartment in Beit Hadassah.


A few of our friends looked at us as if we were crazy. A gentile correspondent who interviewed me a few days ago commented, "either
you are a little crazy, or very, very spiritual."

Why make such a move? The answer is very simple. This is the only answer to Arab terrorism. Their goal is to push us out of Hebron,
and not only Hebron. Also, out of Haifa, Tel Aviv, and of course, Jerusalem. They will use all means at their disposal, including
political and psychological pressure, violence, and even murder. In 1929 the massacre which left 67 dead led to the swift removal of
the surviving Jewish residents by the British. They want us out again. So we have to do the opposite, which is, to move in. Of
course one family is not enough. We must bring in hundreds and thousands more people to live in the City of the Patriarchs and
Matriarchs. And eventually we will. At the moment we have a slight problem with space. Unfortunately we haven't been able to build
in years and all our apartments are full. But soon this will change. Beit Nahum v'Yehuda will be finished within a year. A new
building, Beit HaShisha should also be ready for occupancy during the next 12 months. And the Prime Minister himself promised us
real houses, to replace the caravans in the Admot Yishai-Tel Rumeida neighborhood, including a doubling of the population there.
With G-d's help and a lot of hard work, we should soon see a real growth of Hebron's Jewish population.

So, for our family, it is this year in Hebron. This is our way of memorializing the memory of Rabbi Ra'anan. This is the true
Zionist solution to Arab terrorism. And I have no doubt that living here, only minutes from the 2nd holiest site to the Jewish
people, is a truly spiritual experience. I invite you to be my personal guest in Hebron the next time you visit Eretz Yisrael. You
too can be a part of the Zionist response to those who wish to eradicate a Jewish presence in Hebron, and in all of Israel.

On behalf of myself, Judy Grossman, Noam Arnon Rabbi Yitzhak Pechman, Dr. Dov Stern, and the entire Jewish Community of Hebron,
please accept our blessings for a happy, healthy, sweet and truly peaceful New Year from Hebron.

ANTI-BALLISTIC MISSILE TEST SUCCESSFUL: On Monday, Israel completed the first successful comprehensive test of the Arrow-2
anti-missile missile, HA'ARETZ reported. The missile was launched from the Israel Air Force field at Palmachim, destroying a
simulated target "acquired" by the Arrow's fire-control radar system, code-named "Green Pine." In the last test launch of the Arrow
one year ago, the missile veered off course and the test was aborted. Danny Peretz, the Arrow's project director, said that
following another one or two test launches, by 1999, Israel would have initial operational defense capability in an emergency. A
major impetus for the test launch was Iran's development of the Shihab-3 medium range ballistic missile, which it test-fired last
July. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said on Monday that in the wake of its successful test launch, Israel is one of the few
countries in the world capable of providing its citizens with defense against ballistic missiles. The US is financing two-thirds of
the estimated $1.6 billion cost of developing the Arrow program.

Meanwhile, Israel's Air Force has joined the world of the Internet. The IAF now has its own site at: http://www.iaf.org.il/. This
site is the most technical of all Israeli Internet sites. It contains a never before released map of all Israel Aircraft bases in
Israel, a video, games and general information about the IAF. (ISRAEL LINE, IBA)

RITTER'S WARNING - OP-ED: Thanks to the incompetence of the Clinton administration, Saddam Hussein may very well be in a position to
nuke Israel before the Jewish state's Arrow-2 anti-ballistic missile system is in place. On September 15th former UN Special
Commission (UNSCOM) Inspector Scott Ritter testified before the US House International Relations Committee that if Iraq acquires
bomb-grade uranium from an outside source, it could assemble three nuclear weapons in "days or weeks" using pre-fabricated
components it has concealed from UN inspectors. And Ritter said he has little confidence that inspectors could detect such nuclear
material if it were smuggled in. Deliberate UNSCOM inspections backed by responsible American leadership could have uncovered the
nuclear weapons, as well as the chemical and biological weapons, now being assembled, or stored by Iraq. But the Clinton
administration has abandoned the scene. The evidence was there for the taking, but US Secretary of State Madeleine Albright called
off the inspectors.

These aren't rumors from mysterious unknown sources. Scott Ritter sacrificed his career so that he could share his warning call with
the world. His message is clear: The Clinton Administration has backed down from seriously dealing with the threat which Saddam
Hussein presents today to the region and the world.

Secretary Albright explains that America called off the inspections because its aggressive monitoring threatened to break up the
coalition which backed the UNSCOM program. But what's the point of the program if it isn't allowed to work? Paradoxically the
Clinton Administration could have used the major discoveries, which the canceled inspections promised, to bolster America's ability
to insist on Iraqi compliance.

One would think that this stunning news would be a major topic of conversation in Israel, but it isn't. The Israeli media barely
touches what may turn out to be the most critical story of this generation. And the Israeli government? "The question of Iraq
concerns us all", Prime Minister Netanyahu told me. "It concerns the United States as well. I don't want to get into the particular
question of Mr. Ritter's testimony except to say that in the aggregate I believe that Saddam Hussein poses a challenge to everyone -
to Israel, to the United States, to the peace and stability of the Middle East and beyond the Middle East. So I think the need to
insure that his violations are not left unchallenged is crucial for everyone."

How about the opposition? Labor MK Ephraim Sneh is in Washington now with three other members of the Foreign Affairs Committee and
he has been warning about Iran, but he told me that the Ritter story "doesn't come up in the conversations. These are his claims
against the US government and we aren't getting involved - we didn't come here to oppose the US government." Sneh is well aware of
the seriousness of the situation. "What is clear is that the inspection regime is in danger," he warns. "It has been eroded and is
going to be eroded and it means that the danger of Iraqi missiles may becoming in a very, very short time, a real danger again, and
this is another reason for us to enhance our countermeasures."

Moledet leader MK Rehavam Ze'evi calls for Israel to openly demand that the Clinton Administration take action before it is too
late. "It can't be that they speak aggressively to us about the percentage of a redeployment," he explained, "and yet when Saddam
Hussein overtly threatens the peace in the Middle East he is treated with kid gloves. "The US got exhausted after 6-7 years of
embargo, " Ze'evi says, "and the outcome is that we are the ones who will suffers the results."

A senior member of the American Jewish peace groups explained that the Iraqi threat is important. Important - as a talking point for
pushing for Israeli withdrawals. After all, he argued, what do a few percentages in the West Bank matter when Iraq has the bomb? His
group has no plans to alert Clinton of its concerns.

The mainline American Jewish community also hesitates to take a conspicuous stand. As one leader explained, they don't want to be
seen as Clinton bashers, nor do they want the Iraq issue to be seen as a Jewish rather than universal issue. Pat Buchannan's charge
that Israel's supporters dragged Bush into the Gulf War still has a chilling effect.

If the Iraqi challenge was a matter of decades - or even years - such arguments for restraint might have merit. But from everything
that Ritter tells us we are not talking about years but rather the near term.

Israel's supporters won't have to stand alone on this issue. American legislators from both sides of the floor are starting to
express concern as have some of the leading American editorial writers. But the story requires momentum. It needs events and
activities to move the American public's focus, even momentarily, from President Clinton's potential impeachment to his
administration's dangerous passivity.

Can we meet the challenge? The alternative is beyond comprehension. Dr. Aaron Lerner, Director IMRA (Independent Media Review &
Analysis) INTERNET ADDRESS: imra@netvision.net.il (Originally appeared in The Jerusalem Post 17 September, 1998)


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